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Subject: Is it still good over those years? rss

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Łukasz
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There is a trade on friendly forum, one chap has HotS (3rd edition) and Richard III for sale for the same price, both new. I have been wondering, being able to afford just one, which one to pick. My heart says HotS, but in this type of games, doesn't newer mean 'better' (rules/artwork/chrome/whatnot)?
 
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grouchysmurf wrote:
There is a trade on friendly forum, one chap has HotS (3rd edition) and Richard III for sale for the same price, both new. I have been wondering, being able to afford just one, which one to pick. My heart says HotS, but in this type of games, doesn't newer mean 'better' (rules/artwork/chrome/whatnot)?


I recently just got myself both. My preference is towards HotS cause it's easier to learn, simpler to play, and with constant changing of alliances and with only one really powerful block aka Wallace, is more fun and thematic. Richard III is shorter, seems more polished, has more things going on, and offers more tactical choices, but HotS is still more fun, thematic, and easier to find a non-wargamer to play with. And although I might be in the minority here, the new HotS map is nicer to look it.
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Łukasz
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And no, I don't mind complexity. If RIII is more complex than HotS, this will make more inclined towards purchasing the former.
 
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Richard III or Hammer of the Scots to begin with?

So, better than HotS?
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grouchysmurf wrote:
And no, I don't mind complexity. If RIII is more complex than HotS, this will make more inclined towards purchasing the former.


You might want other opinions on this, cause from reading from other threads, some have mentioned that RIII seems simpler.

Also, HotS is more asymmetrical -- each side offers a very differing gameplay experience and requires quite different strategies.

What I also find to more exciting about HotS is the random drawing of facedown blocks from the pool. With R3, you have a choice of which blocks to recruit, and it boils down to whether you'd wanna forfeit moving blocks currently on the map in order to recruit new blocks. With HotS, the Scottish player has a bigger dilemma, as you're trying to figure out if you should heal current blocks on the map vs drawing new ones from the pool. Also, blocks recruited in R3 are at full strength, and during each Political Turn, all blocks are raised to full strength. With HotS, all blocks recruited by the Scottish side are at minimum strength, making things more desperate and tactically challenging.
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Dan
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At least from what I've read of the comments of R3, it sounds much more like an intro to block wargaming--a streamlining of rules, and not necessarily an improvement. With fewer card plays, it's faster, but people have accused it of being streakier. The Yorkists are also supposedly "overpowered" though this was an accusation leveled against the Brits in HOTS which has since been debunked.

I would go with HOTS, which I own and adore.
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grouchysmurf wrote:
My heart says HotS, but in this type of games, doesn't newer mean 'better' (rules/artwork/chrome/whatnot)?


I haven't played Richard III, so can't compare, but I'd say following your heart is generally a good idea. Historical games are immersive to a large degree because we are interested in the subject matter.

I'd also say that "newer is better" doesn't hold up consistently. Case in point, the Decision reprints of SPI titles, the majority of which were changed for the worse. Components are often better, and rules are often tighter if the newer game is part of a series, e.g. Gustav Adolf the Great: With God and Victorious Arms has the latest standard rules which you should use if you own any of the previous titles in the Musket & Pike series by Ben Hull. But wargames are a bit like books; many of the classics have never been surpassed. (I'd offer The Civil War, published in 1983, as an example. It's still the strategic game of choice on that subject for a great many gamers, myself included.)
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Sphere wrote:
(I'd offer The Civil War, published in 1883, as an example. It's still the strategic game of choice on that subject for a great many gamers, myself included.)


Still holding up to scrutiny after all those years huh?

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guzerat wrote:
Sphere wrote:
(I'd offer The Civil War, published in 1883, as an example. It's still the strategic game of choice on that subject for a great many gamers, myself included.)


Still holding up to scrutiny after all those years huh?



When you're as old as I am, it's easy to slip a century or two!
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Charles F.
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Cesc Lukasz, I personally prefer R3 since it gives you more free-wheeling manoeuvre warfare whereas HOTS often is centred aroung a rather static bottleneck that feels at times more like WWI than the Scottish Wars of Independence.

That being said, I find the nobles' loyalty being bound to their domains more interesting than the manner in which they're treated in R3.

The elegant "dance" of military manoeuvres in R3 definitely gives you a better sence of medieval warfare and strikes me as the more interesting challenge.

As for complexity, I would have thought HOTS is easier to learn since it features were "special cases" than R3.

In any case, I consider both excellent games and very much recommend both. If I were you, I'd go with what your heart says.

BTW, I think the R3 system might work well for many a Polish campaign. Say the First Northern War. Or hey, why not one of those doomed Polish uprisings during the 19th century...?
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Kevin Duke
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Quote:
only one really powerful block aka Wallace


I'd say Longshanks counts as a really powerful block (as anyone who has attacked an area not knowing he was there, even with Wallace along, can attest.)

And I'd agree with those who say go after the historical situation that interests you the most.
 
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kduke wrote:
Quote:
only one really powerful block aka Wallace


I'd say Longshanks counts as a really powerful block (as anyone who has attacked an area not knowing he was there, even with Wallace along, can attest.)

And I'd agree with those who say go after the historical situation that interests you the most.


Yup, but that's still one powerful block per side. In Richard III, you don't really have such distinctive blocks.
 
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Łukasz
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So the guy sold HotS to someone who is quicker with making up his mind. But thanks to your comments, I really will look for another opportunity. Cheers, all!
 
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