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Cosmic Encounter: Cosmic Incursion» Forums » General

Subject: Miser and Merchant rss

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Randall Barnes
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If you're playing with 2 powers and have the Merchant, can you add cards from your hand and your Horde, one or the other, or can you not use the Horde since you're not PLAYING the cards?
 
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Roger
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Merchant wrote:
You have the power to Hire. As a main player or ally, after encounter cards are selected, but before they are revealed, if you have at least one ship in the encounter, you may use this power to play one or more cards facedown from your hand as hired ships.


Miser wrote:
You have the power to Hoard. Whenever you wish to play a card, you may use this power to play a card from your hoard instead of your normal hand.


Both powers use the phrase "play [a/one or more] cards", so I would think that Miser does have the ability to hire ships from his hoard. I'd keep hoard-ships separated from hand-ships, so that if you have a successful encounter, you can put each set of cards back.
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Warren Denning
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I would say your "Hoard" is not your hand, hence the different terminology, so you could not use those cards for the Merchant's power.
 
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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Rogue42 wrote:
Both powers use the phrase "play [a/one or more] cards", so I would think that Miser does have the ability to hire ships from his hoard.

Agreed; the card texts are very clear. Miser can always substitute plays from the hoard for plays from the hand.

Rogue42 wrote:
I'd keep hoard-ships separated from hand-ships, so that if you have a successful encounter, you can put each set of cards back.

Here it's not so clear. One school of thought says they should go back where they came from; the other says you should follow the instructions on the card: "hired ships become normal cards again and return to your hand".

I think I favor the latter, because keeping track of two sets of hired ships is messy, especially with other effects in the game that can knock individual ships out of an encounter. Combine this with the need to keep track of which ones have cosmic backs and which ones reward backs, and now you've got four different categories of cards for somebody to pick between when using something like, say, Gluon Mines. "Which cards came from your regular hand again? Fan out just the reward-back subset of those cards, please ... I'm trying to kill off that Crooked Deal you stole from me!".

So it seems cleanest to just throw them all together in one pile of hired ships, and any that survive return together to your hand as stated in Merchant's text. (However, I need to think about the precedent of flares and other cards played from the hoard returning to the hoard, so I'd love to hear some opposing opinions.)
 
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Greg Filpus
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Bill Martinson wrote:
So it seems cleanest to just throw them all together in one pile of hired ships, and any that survive return together to your hand as stated in Merchant's text. (However, I need to think about the precedent of flares and other cards played from the hoard returning to the hoard, so I'd love to hear some opposing opinions.)


Do flares from the hoard return to the hoard, though? There's no explicit callout in the FAQ or Miser's power, and the rules use the same language as Merchant: "Flare cards are returned to the player’s hand after being played instead of being discarded." I didn't push it in the game I was playing with Miser the other day, but it seems to me like they return to hand. (And it helps from a balance perspective, too- otherwise Miser can reuse a Flare that can't be touched without a Zap.)
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Just a Bill
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GregF wrote:
Do flares from the hoard return to the hoard, though? There's no explicit callout in the FAQ or Miser's power, and the rules use the same language as Merchant: "Flare cards are returned to the player’s hand after being played instead of being discarded." I didn't push it in the game I was playing with Miser the other day, but it seems to me like they return to hand. (And it helps from a balance perspective, too- otherwise Miser can reuse a Flare that can't be touched without a Zap.)

You make a good case, Greg, and I'm hard-pressed to come up with a counter-argument. Technically, a flare can't return to a hand it didn't actually come from, but of course we already have ships "returning" to colonies they didn't came from (and Clone can "return" to his hand a card that actually came from Sorcerer's hand). Your interpretation would seem to force Miser to refresh his hoard more often and thus keep the game engine better lubricated, and it also lets us more plainly interpret "hand" as "hand", rather than it meaning "usually 'hand' but sometimes 'hoard' and good luck figuring out when it's one and when it's the other". I think I agree with you.
 
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Zomber
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Maybe it's messier, but I'd argue a hoard flare returns to the hoard, as we play it.

Regardless of whether the hoard is a 'hand', a 'hoard hand', or something else, Miser's power is to use his hoard like a hand, when he wishes, play a card from it. And when his hoard flare resolves, and it looks to return to the player's hand, the Miser power is still in use for that particular card, and the flare remembers where it came from.


Quote:
And it helps from a balance perspective, too- otherwise Miser can reuse a Flare that can't be touched without a Zap.


Miser doesn't need to be taken down a notch to balance anything. The flare restriction of 1 per encounter balances things out fine. Taking away the best part of Miser's power (imo) would be like giving it a lobotomy. So Miser can hold on to a flare for a long time...If it's really that powerful of a flare, someone will zap it first chance they get. And in the meantime, perhaps Miser can have a little fun.
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Mi Myma
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Yeah, the hired ships go back to where they came from, hoard or hand. The Merchant power card is not written to take into consideration a two-power game in which the player is also the Miser (nor is any other power card). If two sets are cards are too much for you to keep track of, there are plenty of simpler games than CE that you could play.

Besides, if they all go "back" to the regular hand, that gives Miser an easy way to get rid of all his worst cards, and at the same time making it more difficult to get the good cards out of his regular hand. It almost becomes a super-combo.
 
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