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Merchant of Venus» Forums » General

Subject: How does one get a"feel" for MOV? rss

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Arthur Dickie
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I keep looking at this game on BGG. I think it may be a game that I would like. It seems, however, that to find out whether or not I like it, I will have to spend ~$200 for a copy in the marketplace or Ebay, or spend more than $200 plus a gazillion hours to make my own copy.

Is there another game that is available that would give me a similar experience to MOV, so that I might get an indication of whether or not I might like it before I haemmorhage money and time?

I see that something called "2038" is the "standard" recommendation. However, that gives a playing time of 360 mins. That just isn't going to happen in my household.

I'd appreciate any thoughts.
 
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Joshua Gottesman
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I'm told that Duck Dealer has a similar feel, although I haven't played it so I couldn't swear to it. I'm not sure how 2038 would feel like MoV except in the random asteroid phase. Its closer to an 18xx game, IMO. You could always download the "Make it Yourself" kits and take it for a test drive.

Or find a friend who has been holding onto his/her copy for the last 20 years and play it with him/her first.
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Will
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$200 to make your own? Naw, did you see my recent thread where I made it for about $40?
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/489470/making-dathkaden-...

Also, I probably only spent around 25 hours physically making my first copy. Much less than a gazillion hours. I think I spent more time helping to proof the rules rewrite than I did actually making the game. My next one I make should take significantly less now that I know what to do, and I shared some of the things that should help others in terms of making it easier/faster/cheaper in that thread.

Alternatively, I belive there's a cyberboard version in the files section you could use to try it out. That way you could wait to spend the money until you tried it out.
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Mark Beyak
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gnomus wrote:
I keep looking at this game on BGG. I think it may be a game that I would like. It seems, however, that to find out whether or not I like it, I will have to spend ~$200 for a copy in the marketplace or Ebay, or spend more than $200 plus a gazillion hours to make my own copy.

Is there another game that is available that would give me a similar experience to MOV, so that I might get an indication of whether or not I might like it before I haemmorhage money and time?

I see that something called "2038" is the "standard" recommendation. However, that gives a playing time of 360 mins. That just isn't going to happen in my household.

I'd appreciate any thoughts.


Don't even think that 2038 and MoV are similar. They are very different games with completely different mechanics and "feel" to the game. 2038 is much like the 18xx series of Railroad/Stock games. MoV is a pick up and deliver game.
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Beyak wrote:
Don't even think that 2038 and MoV are similar. They are very different games with completely different mechanics and "feel" to the game. 2038 is much like the 18xx series of Railroad/Stock games. MoV is a pick up and deliver game.


Bingo!

The designer, Richard Hamblen, once said that his original design was based on ships trading in the Spice Islands, before the science fiction re-theme. In other words, don't let the space travel fool you.

The thing is, you've got a ship that travels around, with moderately complex route planning options. Each of the locations you visit produces a particular type of trade goods, and has a local demand for some, but not all, other trade goods. You're trying to find efficient routes, where you can generate the most profit over time.

It's hard for me to think of a good analog that is in print at a reasonable price. Silverton is the best I can come up with at the moment, although it's only a distant cousin.
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Arthur Dickie
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Yargo wrote:
$200 to make your own? Naw, did you see my recent thread where I made it for about $40?
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/489470/making-dathkaden-...

Also, I probably only spent around 25 hours physically making my first copy. Much less than a gazillion hours. I think I spent more time helping to proof the rules rewrite than I did actually making the game. My next one I make should take significantly less now that I know what to do, and I shared some of the things that should help others in terms of making it easier/faster/cheaper in that thread.

Alternatively, I belive there's a cyberboard version in the files section you could use to try it out. That way you could wait to spend the money until you tried it out.


I did see your thread and found it very interesting. You'll notice from the little flag next to my name that I'm in the UK and might have difficulty sourcing some of the materials that you mention. They are also likely to be more expensive. Plus I'll need 2-3 times the quantity because of the near certainty of me f******-up along the way.

I've not totally given up on the idea but I'm not optimistic that I'd be able to produce something that did not look like a dog's dinner.

 
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Joel Langenfeld
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Is it that much these days? Last time I'd noticed it was around $50, though it's been being rediscovered lately, and deservedly so.

The best way to get the feel is by playing it. FWIW: I always thought that it reminded me the most of Rail Barron, though there's an exploration phase that simply doesn't equate.

I'd suggest finding someone who plays it on Cyberboard or Vassal and is willing to teach it.
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Will
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gnomus wrote:
I did see your thread and found it very interesting. You'll notice from the little flag next to my name that I'm in the UK and might have difficulty sourcing some of the materials that you mention. They are also likely to be more expensive. Plus I'll need 2-3 times the quantity because of the near certainty of me f******-up along the way.

I've not totally given up on the idea but I'm not optimistic that I'd be able to produce something that did not look like a dog's dinner.


You might have sources for the wooden discs in the UK, or I think caseys ships internationally, someone in the thread in Austrailia ordered the discs and they weren't terribly expensive to ship. You could ask what he paid for shipping.
N/A

In terms of discs, its hard to really screw them up, so you shouldn't need too many extra. If you dye them for instance and don't dye them enough, then you can put them back in to dye them more. If you mess up a sticker, you can tear it off and reprint, the wood disc is fine.
The sheet labels should be able to be found locally at office supply stores. Same with cardstock if you go that route (on my first MoV, I only used cartstock for the ship standees, use something else for the ships and you dont even need cardstock). Both sheet labels and cardstock wouldn't cost much if you screwed up a page.

But then again, trying the cyberboard version is free
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Will
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Dr Corey wrote:
Yargo wrote:

You might have sources for the wooden discs in the UK, or I think caseys ships internationally, someone in the thread in Austrailia ordered the discs and they weren't terribly expensive to ship. You could ask what he paid for shipping.

It was AU$42, so about 24 pounds for all the wood for my set. But if you just wanted to make a set out of cardboard rather than wood you could easily do it for under 10 pounds.


When I add the discs to my cart it comes out to be 21 USD for just the wood, which is about 13 pounds. So call it 10 pounds cost for shipping to austrailia.


gnomus wrote:
I've not totally given up on the idea but I'm not optimistic that I'd be able to produce something that did not look like a dog's dinner.

Also, I just wanted to comment on this. It would be really hard to have less artistic talent than me. Fortunately, this project doesn't need any beyond pushing a lever to cut paper circles, or pushing a lever to straight line cut paper sheets in the way I did it For all the paper and reference sheet and money and just about everything, you just do straight cuts. Easiest is with a paper cutter, but you can use a scissors if you must. The only stuff that isn't straight line cuts across the page is the ship standees. And those are still straight angle scissor cuts, and you can use any sorta pawns or tokens instead of that, heck you could cannibalize some from sorry or monopoly or some such.
For the wood disks, all you do is push a lever on the circle paper punch and it punches it out.
If you choose to dye the wood, you only need to be able to roughly measure out some water and dye. Heck its probably possible to just use a 1 liter bottle, or fill a 2 liter soda bottle half full to get 1 liter, and thats probably close to the amount of liquid you'd need to a package of fabric dye. After that, all you need to be able to do is watch the clock until 2 hours have passed.

Thats one reason I did the stuff the way I did it, because its NOT that hard to do, and there's not that much that can get messed up. I messed up a few stickers my first few discs, and I just reprinted that one sheet. After that I didn't mess up any to the point to which I thought I needed to reprint them.

As a final note, I'm not trying to put down the time/effort/skill that some people have put into thier copies. Some people who DID spend $200 went WAY beyond what I did and put a lot of artistic skills into making the game look nicer, and have added durability. I'm only commenting on what it takes to make it in the way that I personally did mine. I'm very happy with the way mine turned for what I spent and the effort I put into it. In terms of durability, if for example after 50 plays a sticker comes loose, its not going to be a huge problem for me to print another.

By documenting what I did for mine, I'm hoping that people who might otherwise be intimidated by the project can see that its not terribly expensive, doesn't require a lot of special skills to do, and also doesn't require a massive time investment (all this is assuming its done similar to how I did mine). Also by documenting mine, that will hopefully help people save time and reduce potential problems if they do thier own.
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    Auf Achse is similar, though less complex. It will give you a solid idea of the fundamental economics at play in Merchant of Venus.

             S.


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Ray
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Monopoly
 
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Will
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wtrollkin2000 wrote:


Both of them having roll & move doesn't make them similar enough games that you could get a feel for MoV by playing Monopoly

 
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Ray
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there is a bit more similar than roll and move...
 
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Slev Sleddeddan
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gnomus wrote:
You'll notice from the little flag next to my name that I'm in the UK and might have difficulty sourcing some of the materials that you mention. They are also likely to be more expensive. Plus I'll need 2-3 times the quantity because of the near certainty of me f******-up along the way.


Not as bad as you'd think. It's cheapest to have Caseys ship the discs from the US than it is to buy them over here. To account for shipping and different costs, Yargo's copy will cost you about £50 to make.

I'm plotting to have a finished copy with me at Summer StabCon, so you can always try it there!

There are some UK options that will allow you to achieve some very good results cheaply.
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Eric Monte
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If you've ever played anything in the Empire Builder series it's possible you would like this game. I often switch off between the two and find they have very similar feels.

I tend to think that MOV is a lot more fun, mainly cause there's a little more luck, and you have more of a choice on which route you want to take toward victory. In Empire Builder you kinda get some cards and you got to do something with them. But this could be compared to the way you discover cultures in MOV. Also, MOV is a little quicker after you get the hang of it.

Plus you can get Empire Builder easily and for cheap.
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