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Subject: Translation and proofing issues rss

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Francis K. Lalumiere
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I've seen one typo here or there in a Rio Grande release, and that's quite acceptable, but Macao is taking the "let's not even look at what we just typed" work method to a whole new level.

The rulebook is riddled with typos.Missing words, extra ones, misspelled stuff all over the place -- starting with "adenturers" right in your face in the overview on page 1.
(I also like the "activiated cards" at the bottom of each player board...)

The cards also suffer, from minor stuff like a period after Night Watchman (not a big deal but it shouldn't be there) to MAJOR screw ups like Exersize Yard. I mean, come on. EXERSIZE? I have to remind my kids that's not the right way to spell it when we play the game.

That brings us to the translation, which is rather weak in Macao. Previous Alea/RGG rulebooks were very well done, but this one has murky areas that result from poor sentence construction.
And who would select ACTIVATE over BUILD or PURCHASE for the action of putting a card in play? Every single player in my group had problems with this for at least the whole first game.
And what's wrong with using "cube" instead of AC and "gold" instead of GC? There's another monkey in the wrench that ratchets up the learning curve.

I had noticed similar problems with the Treasure Chest, but this is getting ugly.
Is this what we can expect from future Alea/RGG releases?
I hope not. It's my favorite series of games and I want it to stay that way.

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Andrew Brown
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I keep hearing poor comments about the English translation of the rules for this game and it makes me very sad. I am so excited to play this one and I don't want my initial experience to be hampered by difficult translations/missuses of unclear rules.

I will be scouring the forums on this one and painstakingly reviewing the rules before I give it a first play with some friends. Nothing worse than people not liking a game because of convoluted rules and oversight in production. Especially a game you have high hopes for.
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Sheamus Parkes
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Alea Iacta Est had a few rough spots in the rules. Nothing as bad as this though. I really hope RGG turns this around. They used to put out a really polished product.
 
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Mik Svellov
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weishaupt wrote:
And who would select ACTIVATE over BUILD or PURCHASE for the action of putting a card in play?

This one we actually have to blame alea for, as that is the term used in the German edition. I also dislike using 'activate' for this, as that is the word I would like to use when I 'trigger' a card.

I guess the word was used because it would be incorrect to say that 'buy' a person, and you certainly can't 'build' him.

Quote:
And what's wrong with using "cube" instead of AC and "gold" instead of GC?
Again a correct translation of the rules.

So the question arise, whether a publisher should make a faithful translation or change key word to fit the intended audience.
In the few official translations I have made, have I always preferred to use terms generally known by gamers - within the boundaries given for the subject.

So I agree with you!
 
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Jon W
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Agreed, it's a terrible job, the worst in recent memory. Worse is that even the "literal" sounding translations miss critical info about how often the cards can be "activiated" (which is apparently completely unambiguous on the German cards).

Still, it's playable, and seems like a pretty good game so far. Hope RGG/alea get it sorted out by the next game, though.

Also: oddest translation to me is the "Punish" markers. Punish? It's an odd choice. Who is doing all this punishing?
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Chaddyboy
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weishaupt wrote:
I had noticed similar problems with the Treasure Chest, but this is getty ugly.


Man, you really have to check your spelling before posting!

Kidding aside, we had some confusion in our first game with the usage of the word "activate" as well. We knew what the rules intended to mean by "activate", but still got tripped up and had to catch ourselves from screwing something up several times.
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Mik Svellov
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waddball wrote:
Also: oddest translation to me is the "Punish" markers. Punish? It's an odd choice. Who is doing all this punishing?


laugh Okay, in this case I believe RGG will have to bear the blame themselves.
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Doobermite
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It's funny but I didn't even notice the misspellings. It didn't effect our understanding of the rules or enjoyment of the game however. Thankfully this is one game where the misprints aren't really a big deal. The El Grande Decennial Edition....now that was a big deal!
 
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Jon W
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Great Dane wrote:
laugh Okay, in this case I believe RGG will have to bear the blame themselves.

I guess Jay felt that not having cubes on your turn wasn't just bad, it was downright naughty....
 
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
weishaupt wrote:
I had noticed similar problems with the Treasure Chest, but this is getty ugly.


Man, you really have to check your spelling before posting!

At least I don't have a print run of several thousand games that say "this is getty ugly." (And what do you know, perhaps I was trying to express ugliness in a J. Paul Getty kind of way?)
 
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Chris Toussaint
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weishaupt wrote:

And who would select ACTIVATE over BUILD or PURCHASE for the action of putting a card in play? Every single player in my group had problems with this for at least the whole first game.



Some of the cards are persons. Actually it's not possible to build persons and sounds quite funny: "I'm building the baroness!"




Chris
 
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Shannon Appelcline
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I'd agree that RGG should be ashamed of putting out that rulebook with their name on it.

However, you missed the biggest problem: using the same names for some of the types of cards AND individual cards, such as "Office". That almost caused enough problems to ruin our first game.

If RGG isn't going to put into effort into their translations, they should let someone willing to do a better job take them over.
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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Jeff Two wrote:
weishaupt wrote:

And who would select ACTIVATE over BUILD or PURCHASE for the action of putting a card in play? Every single player in my group had problems with this for at least the whole first game.



Some of the cards are persons. Actually it's not possible to build persons and sounds quite funny: "I'm building the baroness!"
Chris

Use "purchase" then. Or something like that.

Personally, I'd rather go with "sounds a bit strange" than be stuck with "screws up the game every single time."
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Geo
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shannona wrote:
I'd agree that RGG should be ashamed of putting out that rulebook with their name on it.


I agree.

Many of their rulebooks contain mistakes - Ponte del Diavolo and Vikings come to mind. The mistake in the Ponte del Diavolo manual ruined the whole game as the sentence:

"A piece can also be placed adjacent to another piece" was translated "A piece can not be placed adjacent to another piece".

Let's hope that future games will have icons on the cards instead of text so we can go back buying the German editions.

It makes me angry to have to pay almost 40% more and get an edition full of errors.... thumbsdown


 
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Chris Keates
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Man, I guess this will be another one of those "wait for the second print run" purchases. cry
 
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Ken Thibodeau
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themothman421 wrote:
Man, I guess this will be another one of those "wait for the second print run" purchases. :cry:


Actually it sounds worse than it really is. Besides one ambiguous card, I had no problem understanding ad playing the game. You just have to be careful about the strange word choices sometimes. But it doesnt affect gameplay per se
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Mik Svellov
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themothman421 wrote:
Man, I guess this will be another one of those "wait for the second print run" purchases. cry

Just buy the German edition - it has no errors!
 
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Joseph Cochran
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dbmite wrote:

It's funny but I didn't even notice the misspellings. It didn't effect our understanding of the rules or enjoyment of the game however.


Was that intentional?
 
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Geo
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Macao should be available from UK shops last week but no copies were delivered by Esdevium. Also Milan Spiele notified me that the English version will be available from them no sooner than April.

Maybe these are indications that the cards and/or manual are reprinted to correct the errors?

 
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Steve K
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GeoMan wrote:
Macao should be available from UK shops last week but no copies were delivered by Esdevium.


Copies were distributed by Esdevium last week. A quick check today showed least 2 online stores that still have copies, and one store has sold out.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an official rules re-write.
 
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Geo
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SteveK2 wrote:
GeoMan wrote:
Macao should be available from UK shops last week but no copies were delivered by Esdevium.


Copies were distributed by Esdevium last week. A quick check today showed least 2 online stores that still have copies, and one store has sold out.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an official rules re-write.


Maybe they were just delayed. I couldn't find Macao in any of the major UK online stores and Keith (from Heron Games) told me that he also expected to get his copies last week but he didn't get any.


 
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Steve K
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Shire Games and Leisure Games seem to have them in stock. My copy arrived Tuesday last week at my local shop (so I know at least one copy was distributed).

Maybe there just weren't many copies in this first batch?
 
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Rich P
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I got my copy from boardgameguru last week. The translation errors aren't severe enough to affect the game too much, although I did take the precaution of checking the clarifications on BGG before our first play. They are annoying enough that I considered offering my proof-reading services to Rio Grande if I thought they'd entertain the idea.
 
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Gary Heidenreich
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The rules to play the game, at least to me, were fine. I had no issues regarding that and we were able to play from the first time reading the rules.

Some of the card ambiguity was a bit rough. We made some common sense decisions and off we went. The one I remember was where if you activated a card, it made it sound like all turns after that you HAD to pay four GC to activate a card. We went with common sense and played it that you had that option.

Other than that, it was good and I really enjoyed this one.
 
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Matt Musselman
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For whatever it's worth. I'm totally with you on the AC, GC, and PP item.

I love the game -- my wife and I have played it a number of times. But nearly every game she asks me "Is AC the cube? Or GC the cube?" The fact that both AC and GC both contain the letter C makes it that much worse.

And it's not like space on the cards was that limited, and that the abbreviations save much space.

Compare:
- Pay any 1 AC and take 1 GC
- Pay any 1 cube and take 1 gold

Wow, what a difference it would have made, right? Anyway, it drives me nuts just because it's a peeve of mine anyway when people use acronyms and abbreviations just for their own sake, especially when they only make things more difficult, and this is one of the first times that's crept into a game I like.

And while we're all ranting, the other thing which bugs me:
- You score 1 PP for each of your activated "finance" office cards

"What colour is finance?" . . . . "Uh, oh, okay, it's the grey ones." . . . "Wait, what colour is finance again?"

At least the more standard 'You take 1 GC more, when you use at least 1 "finance" office card' card requires 2 grey cubes to activate, and so people start to learn that it costs grey cubes and helps grey cubes, but the prestige point one, with its 2 red 1 green cost gives no indication whatsoever what colour it's referring to.

I don't know if they will have the chance to redo the card text, but if they were to rewrite AC, GC, and PP to cube, gold, and point, respectively, and then include colour codes whenever card text mentions finance, customs, etc, it would almost be a big enough deal for me to buy the game again. It's really a hassle otherwise....

Alright, end of rant.

But again, as for the gameplay itself, thanks for the great game, Stefan!
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