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Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage» Forums » Rules

Subject: No General in battle and a couple more questions rss

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Houserule Jay
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Just trying to finish off a game and a couple things came up.

I sailed from Spain to Sicily successfully and landed where the Romans had 3 Cu's with no General. (which I think is legal from rules, PC's and CU's dont restrict sailing?)

In the battle, I had 6 cards and they had 3. They had no way to withdrawl or avoid battle because there was no General correct?

They also have no way to win the initiative in the battle correct? (except for Double Envelop)

So they lost the battle and retreat like normal from what I can tell.

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Different question, when two armies are close to each other and both have Generals, one moves to the other to attack, the Defender can Intercept for the extra card?

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Maybe one more thing on some strategy help. Right now I am Hannibal in the South of Italy positioned next to my friendly tribe and no other friendly PC's in site anywhere. Rome has an army somewhat bigger than mine next to me.

What the heck can I do here, if I go anywhere and get attacked and lose, I have to retreat all the way back to the friendly tribe taking more loss all the way back. If I drop a PC anywhere, it is a sitting duck so not sure how I can convert an PC's.

I also have Gisgo stationed in Sicily (as per above), because there are no Carthage PC markers there IF he gets attacked basically he's dead if he loses because he has no where to retreat to?

Not sure what I should be doing here and my hands are tied it seems. It seems really hard to break into Italy and live since there is never anywhere to retreat to and trying to make somewhere to retreat to means leaving sitting duck CU's on the board.

Somehow I think I am missing something strategically?


TIA
 
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Richard Young
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I'm pretty sure you have the first situation analyzed correctly. You need a general to add his battle cards and to allow for interception/avoidance/initiative die rolls.

In the second situation, you can intercept whenever an enemy army is attempting to move into any adjacent hex, which includes coming straight for you.

In the third situation, my assessment is that you should be trying to arrange for Gisgo to provide support to Hannibal. Seize control of the strait (if you don't already have it), then bring him across. The context, which we don't have here, would determine if Gisgo should be fighting his way to Hannibal or the other way around. I'm assuming Hannibal's army is bigger than Gisgo's but it could be otherwise. You have a base of operations in Lucania and should be trying to exploit it. Start planting seeds of PCs in convenient locations and if the Roman army goes for them intercept with Hannibal then withdraw. Rinse and repeat. Establishing a port of entry in Italy would be a great help as well (the right card would be a god-send). If Gisgo can link up with Hannibal, the Roman player should start to sweat a little...
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Russ Williams
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Bubslug wrote:
I'm pretty sure you have the first situation analyzed correctly. You need a general to add his battle cards and to allow for interception/avoidance/initiative die rolls.

I agree, it sounds like the first situation was understood well.

Quote:
In the second situation, you can intercept whenever an enemy army is attempting to move into any adjacent hex, which includes coming straight for you.

I don't think so. Assuming the OP means that (e.g.) Hannibal is now adjacent to Varro, and Hannibal moves directly into Varro's space to attack, I think it is not possible for Varro to intercept. See rule 12.2. Hannibal is not moving into a space adjacent to Varro; he is moving into Varro's space. A space is not adjacent to itself.

But if the OP meant there's a space between Hannibal and Varro, and Hannibal moves into that space, then yes, Varro could intercept into that space.
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Richard Young
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Correct. I assumed that when Jay said "close to" he didn't mean already adjacent. It makes a difference - the time to intercept would have been when the opposing army did move to an adjacent hex. Too late now if he is already there...
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James Di Vito
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Bubslug, are you suggesting that he eventually try to siege both Messina strait cities with Gisgo's small army just to link up with Hannibal? I'd suggest that would be gigantic waste of cards and turns.

My guess is your best bet with your Gisgo group is mopping up control of Sicily and sitting and chilling until you have some lucky chance to get out (i.e. an Adriatic Pirates card or something like that). And don't ever bother seiging Syracuse. If its not already yours, its a total of -2 to siege so I can't imagine a situation where it would be worth it. Especially if the Syracuse Switches Sides (?) card is still around.

Can you tell us how many CUs you have with Hannibal versus how many the Roman army nearby has? Also, what's the province count in Italy so we know how many allies you are getting.

I think Bubslug is correct: if the Roman wants to risk a fight with Hannibal to try to mop up your lone CUs, then let him have it. Don't worry about fighting the Roman unless you are seriously outnumbered. The fact that you are within 4 spaces of the Bruttium tribe is already a pretty good spot for Hannibal to be in.
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Houserule Jay
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Thanks everyone for the help.

Turns out that things didnt turn out so good.

I made it down to the tribe and a Roman army followed me. I stayed one space away and when they attacked I intercepted, this also left me somewhere to retreat to. I think I had 9CU's to their 10, things were pretty even, I lost the north province so I had 13BC to their 14.

I got crap cards but hung in anyway instead of withdrawing, turns out I should have withdrew. No biggy but I lost and took 3 damage total.

After this I didnt know what to do. The problem is really where the heck can you retreat to if you go anywhere?

If I went south, like I wanted, to try and maybe take control of the straight or even just to drop a CU or two to try and convert some PC's, the Roman army just has to attack me from the tribe spot and I have no where to retreat if I lose and I'll die.

If I went north to Tarentum, like I wanted, and I got attacked and lost retreating all the way back to the tribe is going to pretty much kill me since you lose a CU for every time you go through an enemy PC. Also, the Roman army would have just intercepted me on my way through and attacked me.

I felt truly trapped and really didn't know what to do. Almost never am I lost for strategy in a game but mostly here I was.

Anyway I dont remember what I did but we had another battle or two and I was down to ONE CU!!!!

I did what any man in that position would do, I ran for the hills LOL

I manned a boat at the port, it was a zero port and was VERY risky overall but I didnt see any other options, I got lucky and sailed for Carthage but that was luck.

I'm not so sure next game I would want to make a run for the tribe in the south. See my thread about 4 below this one where I was also asking for strategy help, I'm still perplexed here mostly as Carthage.
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Richard Young
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Yes, you need a way to keep Hannibal supplied with troops. You need favorable cards to help with that (and Mago). You need favorable cards to help with your southern ambitions as well (cards that help deliver Tarantum and/or Sicily for example). Sowing PC markers should remain the focus however. Sometimes things just aren't going to pan out...
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Andy Latto
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jayjonbeach wrote:

If I went south, like I wanted, to try and maybe take control of the straight


Forget about taking control of the strait. It's never going to happen. It requires 2 sieges, which will take Carthage an average of 12 card plays even if Rome does nothing at all. And you have to have armies on both sides of the strait to start the process. And they will lose CU's during the siege.

Quote:

or even just to drop a CU or two to try and convert some PC's, the Roman army just has to attack me from the tribe spot and I have no where to retreat if I lose and I'll die.

The plan should be that if he tries to attack from the tribe space you intercept as he moves to the tribe. Then at least you have an extra card for the interception and an extra card for the tribe. And you can use your ability to move twice in a row (end of one turn and beginning of the next) to move Hannibal and then flip some spaces before Rome can respond.

But yes, going to the south is not an end in itself. Don't go unless you can see a gain from going there. Often this involves getting reinforcements, via Bruttium recruits, Adriatic pirates, or flipping Croton (or Tarentum with the traitor) to make it possible to sail Mago in with reinforcements. The other key is cards like Force March and Hannibal Charms Italy to enable you to take the two southern provinces quickly, which makes Hannibal much safer against attack.

Quote:

I manned a boat at the port, it was a zero port and was VERY risky overall


Assuming you have time to convert the Roman PC on the port, it isn't that risky; -2 for Carthage, and -1 for only one CU totals -3, so you are only sunk on a 6.

but I didnt see any other options, I got lucky and sailed for Carthage but that was luck. But yes, sometimes Hannibal needs to run away, and pick up a new army in Spain or Africa.

Quote:

I'm not so sure next game I would want to make a run for the tribe in the south. See my thread about 4 below this one where I was also asking for strategy help, I'm still perplexed here mostly as Carthage.


One of the great things about this game is that you can't go into it with any fixed plan. You need to be guided by the cards. With some hands, getting Hannibal to the south is vital. With others, it's a death trap.
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Houserule Jay
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andylatto wrote:

The plan should be that if he tries to attack from the tribe space you intercept as he moves to the tribe. Then at least you have an extra card for the interception and an extra card for the tribe. And you can use your ability to move twice in a row (end of one turn and beginning of the next) to move Hannibal and then flip some spaces before Rome can respond.


Well intercepting like that and losing means your dead though so pretty risky, only because I had no other friendly PC spaces around.

I like that end of turn idea but if Rome gets a campaign card and goes first it foils it.



andylatto wrote:

One of the great things about this game is that you can't go into it with any fixed plan. You need to be guided by the cards. With some hands, getting Hannibal to the south is vital. With others, it's a death trap.


LMAO!! I sure found that out the hard way...

-------------

Thanks everyone, next game should be interesting....
 
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Per Sylvan
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With Carthage, try getting into G Cisalpine on T1, when Rome has bad generals. Then reinforce max with '3' cards and build the Alpine Fortress with Hannibal.. Once you are up to 13-14 CUs, Rome does not have many options!
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Alex H.
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Perry wrote:
With Carthage, try getting into G Cisalpine on T1, when Rome has bad generals. Then reinforce max with '3' cards and build the Alpine Fortress with Hannibal.. Once you are up to 13-14 CUs, Rome does not have many options!


Unless Rome just drops an army into Spain with a campaign card and starts threatening your supplies. Just sitting in Cisalpine is not going to help you here. Also, suppose you lost - say 2 CUs when crossing the Alps. Going up to 13 means playing at least 5 cards (3x3ops cards + 1 Gallic Recruits). So you are up there for almost one whole year/turn not doing much.
I don't think that in most situations that would be an approach I would favor. I think that if Hannibal gets into Italy early he should start threatening whoever is running around there. Force battles on smaller armies, make them lose CUs and PCs, convert PCs, just do something. Don't allow the Romans to take the initiavite away before Africanus shows up.
Just my thoughts after some limited game exposure.
 
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