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Subject: Wire and pillbox questions rss

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ben saylor
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Delray Beach
Florida
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How does the wire work? If it is in a terrain with a pillbox do I pay the movement factors to move into the hex with the wire and place the unit on top of the wire. Then if I want to enter the pillbox I need to roll a die and have more MF than the roll to move into the location?

What if wire is in an open ground hex? Can I spend 1 MF to move into the hex and then stay onto of the wire and pay the COT for the next hex entered without dealing with the wire?
 
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Malcolm Cameron
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Re: Wire questions
Once you are on the wire you stay on it until you move beneath it, which costs a variable number of MF (and can only be done in the MPh). Once beneath the wire you can move / advance to a different location.

So to get to the Pillbox, or to the next open ground hex, you do have to deal with the wire in that way.

I think of it in this way: on the wire counter = tangled up in the barbed wire entanglement. Beneath the wire counter = having found your way through (easily or not so easily, depending on your dr).

No rule book handy when offering this reply ...
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ben saylor
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Re: Wire questions
Thanks I was confused about it; I have a first edition rulebook and it is clear for locations in a hex but no so clear for moving through a hex.
 
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Mark Evans
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Re: Wire questions
happyloaf wrote:
How does the wire work? If it is in a terrain with a pillbox do I pay the movement factors to move into the hex with the wire and place the unit on top of the wire. Then if I want to enter the pillbox I need to roll a die and have more MF than the roll to move into the location?

What if wire is in an open ground hex? Can I spend 1 MF to move into the hex and then stay onto of the wire and pay the COT for the next hex entered without dealing with the wire?


I have no disagreement with Malcolm's answer, I will just provide a bit more detail. (Using second edition rules)

For illustrative purposes, you have a pillbox and wire in an open ground hex.

To move into the hex costs 1MF.

You are placed on top of the wire.
You are not free to move, rout, or advance until the wire is dealt with.

To deal with the wire you make a dr during your movement or rout phase (not advance). That is the number of MF to be place your unit beneath the wire.

Once beneath the wire, you can enter the pillbox for 1MF, stay put, or leave the hex freely.

Tactical Tip: Setting up a defense with wire in a pillbox hex give your pillbox unit an extra level or protection from Close Combat.
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Brent Pollock
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Re: Wire questions
I'll provide even more detail because wire and PBs are kind of silly, for precisely the interpretations stated above - they are counterintuitive and not the way you assume they should be played. Getting through the wire and INTO the PB is as described above, but getting out is goofed up - to leave the PB, you get placed back ON the wire (I know - it's b*llsh*t to me too). This essentially comes down to B26.4 ('...to enter a Wire Location...') and B30.1 (A pillbox is a separate non-vertical-level Location inside its hex...'). So, when you leave the PB Location, you are entering the Wire Location anew for the purposes of B26.4. Even if you immediately try to reenter the PB, you still have to go through the wire; dumb, stupid, absurd mechanic, but thems the rules.

It gets worse when you consider the placement of DCs vs the wired PB. The unit placing the DC gets to do so without (i) paying the wire dr or (ii) paying the +1 MF for PB entry). So, to defend your PBs well with wire, you need to have the wire one hex out to catch the DC placers and not impede your PB boys from leaving. Of course, a bunker will let you get out without taking the wire dr (B27.54).

This was discussed over at the Gamesquad forum a while back (Fall 2009?), but the search function seems screwed up since the last 'upgrade' and the Fall 2009 timeframe seems to have disappeared into the archive, which I have no aptitude for searching

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Here are the Perry Sez responses I got Oct 3, 2009 (I don't seem to have sent in anything about paying wire costs for leaving the PB). To my mind, both responses contradict the rulebook:

Q. (A23.3, B26.4, B26.45, B30.2) May a unit attempt to Place a DC vs a pillbox that is under a Wire counter if the Placing unit is in an adjacent hex or is it prevented from doing so by B26.45, despite not being ‘on’ the Wire counter? If it may, then does it have to make the B26.4 Wire MF dr as part of its A23.3 expenditure?

It does not have to get beneath the wire amd no Wire rolls; B26.51.
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> Q. (A23.3 & B30.4) Does a unit trying to Place a DC against a pillbox have to pay the extra 1 MF for pillbox entry?


No.
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P.S. Ben, please consider editing the subject to 'Wire & Pillbox questions'.
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ben saylor
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Ok now a pillbox question. A broken unit in a pillbox cannot leave if an enemy is adjacent including in the same hex or in an adjacent hex. So wouldn't that broken unit be eliminated due to failure to rout? The rules are no clear on the elimination just that the unit cannot leave the pillbox location. This would also seem like it'd be easy to take the pillbox units as prisoners if they are broken since they'd have to leave into open ground and be interdicted.
 
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Mark Evans
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happyloaf wrote:
Ok now a pillbox question. A broken unit in a pillbox cannot leave if an enemy is adjacent including in the same hex or in an adjacent hex. So wouldn't that broken unit be eliminated due to failure to rout? The rules are no clear on the elimination just that the unit cannot leave the pillbox location. This would also seem like it'd be easy to take the pillbox units as prisoners if they are broken since they'd have to leave into open ground and be interdicted.


First [B30.5] states that a unit is never required to rout.

Remember also ADJACENT for DM and routing is defined as, in the same hex as the pillbox or an adjacent hex within the CA.
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