Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Use of Withdrawl to trap opponent rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Charles Danila
United States
Sierra Vista
Arizona
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I am re-reading the rules preparing for a game tomorrow and came across something I have not seen discussed here.

In step one of a space battle the attacker can declare a withdrawal, but it never says you have to have a valid target system for the withdrawal. If the attacker declares withdrawal the defender cannot declare a retreat. Then in step 4, since the attacker has no valid system to withdrawal to, the fight continues. By these rules an attacker could force a defender to fight to the death and never get a chance to retreat.

I do not think this was the designer's intent and was hoping I could get some input before I institute a house rule restricting the announcement of withdrawals to those fleets that actually have at least one valid withdrawal location,

What say you?

Thanks in advance,
Chaz
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John M
United States
Henderson
Nevada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Page 17 of the TI3 rules states:

When executing a withdrawal or retreat, a player must withdraw his entire fleet to an adjacent system that has previously been activated by the withdrawing/retreating player. If a player has no previously activated systems adjacent to the contested system, he may not withdraw or retreat.

This rule states what is required to perform a withdrawal or retreat, so my opinion is that if that condition is not met, the player may not even announce the withdrawal or retreat to begin with.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
Hanover
Lower Saxony
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Editor at Lookout Games
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What John says. However, there is an official variant called 'Strategic Retreat' that allows a player to spend a command counter from their strategic allocation area and place it into an adjacent system that hasn't been activated by that player, yet, to allow the retreat to this system.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leo Zappa
United States
Aliquippa
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HeavyGear wrote:
Page 17 of the TI3 rules states:

When executing a withdrawal or retreat, a player must withdraw his entire fleet to an adjacent system that has previously been activated by the withdrawing/retreating player. If a player has no previously activated systems adjacent to the contested system, he may not withdraw or retreat.

This rule states what is required to perform a withdrawal or retreat, so my opinion is that if that condition is not met, the player may not even announce the withdrawal or retreat to begin with.


Of course, if you use the "Tactical Retreat" rule from Shattered Empires (Optional Rule 10, SE rulebook page 11), you can dispense with the need to have a previously activated system in which to retreat. You instead take a command counter from your strategy allocation area and place into the adjacent system where you intend to retreat. This is the rule our group has used since our second game of TI3.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Twilight%20Imp...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with HeavyGear. Since the rules say you may not withdraw with no valid system, I would consider it poor form (and possibly borderline cheating) to declare an intentionally illegal withdrawal.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John M
United States
Henderson
Nevada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
desertfox2004 wrote:
Of course, if you use the "Tactical Retreat" rule from Shattered Empires (Optional Rule 10, SE rulebook page 11), you can dispense with the need to have a previously activated system in which to retreat. You instead take a command counter from your strategy allocation area and place into the adjacent system where you intend to retreat. This is the rule our group has used since our second game of TI3.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Twilight%20Imp...


Yes, forgot about that. That rule only applies to the defender, though, not the attacker, correct?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leo Zappa
United States
Aliquippa
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HeavyGear wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
Of course, if you use the "Tactical Retreat" rule from Shattered Empires (Optional Rule 10, SE rulebook page 11), you can dispense with the need to have a previously activated system in which to retreat. You instead take a command counter from your strategy allocation area and place into the adjacent system where you intend to retreat. This is the rule our group has used since our second game of TI3.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Twilight%20Imp...


Yes, forgot about that. That rule only applies to the defender, though, not the attacker, correct?


That's correct - the wording in the rule clearly states "...the defender may...". A point I will need to remind my group about the next time we play!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's worth noting that the attacker only withdraws, the defender only retreats; Granted, this only matters for "tactical retreats", but it reinforces the defense-only bit on that.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan Ozimek
Denmark
Aalborg
flag msg tools
badge
Must resist M:tG. Boardgames are my methadone :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
desertfox2004 wrote:
HeavyGear wrote:
Page 17 of the TI3 rules states:

When executing a withdrawal or retreat, a player must withdraw his entire fleet to an adjacent system that has previously been activated by the withdrawing/retreating player. If a player has no previously activated systems adjacent to the contested system, he may not withdraw or retreat.

This rule states what is required to perform a withdrawal or retreat, so my opinion is that if that condition is not met, the player may not even announce the withdrawal or retreat to begin with.


Of course, if you use the "Tactical Retreat" rule from Shattered Empires (Optional Rule 10, SE rulebook page 11), you can dispense with the need to have a previously activated system in which to retreat. You instead take a command counter from your strategy allocation area and place into the adjacent system where you intend to retreat. This is the rule our group has used since our second game of TI3.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Twilight%20Imp...


In my group we have been wondering why you have to spend a command counter from Strategy Allocation pooland not the Comnmand Pool. The command pool just seems to make more sense to me..?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
Hanover
Lower Saxony
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Editor at Lookout Games
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ozimek wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
HeavyGear wrote:
Page 17 of the TI3 rules states:

When executing a withdrawal or retreat, a player must withdraw his entire fleet to an adjacent system that has previously been activated by the withdrawing/retreating player. If a player has no previously activated systems adjacent to the contested system, he may not withdraw or retreat.

This rule states what is required to perform a withdrawal or retreat, so my opinion is that if that condition is not met, the player may not even announce the withdrawal or retreat to begin with.


Of course, if you use the "Tactical Retreat" rule from Shattered Empires (Optional Rule 10, SE rulebook page 11), you can dispense with the need to have a previously activated system in which to retreat. You instead take a command counter from your strategy allocation area and place into the adjacent system where you intend to retreat. This is the rule our group has used since our second game of TI3.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Twilight%20Imp...


In my group we have been wondering why you have to spend a command counter from Strategy Allocation pooland not the Comnmand Pool. The command pool just seems to make more sense to me..?


I see it this way: The CC from the command pool are spent for active actions, those from the strategic allocation pool are spent for passive actions. Although you retreat actively, without the battle you wouldn't have to, thus, it's perfectly legal that the CC comes from the strategy pool.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.