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Successors (third edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Ahura Mazda and Ahriman rss

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Evan Seifert
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Does the player who plays "Ahura Mazda and Ahriman" draw a card from the deck to replace it, as well as getting a card from another player? If so, does this player then have a six-card hand for the rest of the game?

Thanks.
 
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Richard Young
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Looks like it unless there is some errata that clarifies how this card would be treated differently than any other "surprise" card which is replaced as soon as it is played (rule 7.3). The target opponent gets to draw a card to replace the one he lost as well, but won't end up with six. Looks like a good deal to me!

There is nothing in the rules about a hand-size limit, nor does it say that after playing five rounds players must discard any surplus cards. Further, at the start of the Tyche Phase, each player is "dealt five cards" - not "dealt cards to bring them up to five." If five cards is some sort of hard cap it is not so stated anywhere.
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Mark Bigney
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The example of play in the rulebook has a player using Ahura Mazda and not drawing a replacement for it (merely gaining the card he stole). That said, examples of play are notoriously unreliable, and I would like a clarification too.
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Richard Young
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There is a note on the card that says that it can only be played during the player's own turn, which makes it quite different than most "surprise" cards. In that respect, it looks and acts much like a regular event card - maybe it was never meant to be a surprise card?

If you remove the card from the "surprise" category, the problem goes away. But then so would the opportunity to play it outside the Tyche Phase which would make the card less than it is (for example, the chance to grab an opponent's surprise card during combat, to use against him, can be a devastating play).

I missed looking at the example of play section and the fact that a replacement card was not drawn may be a clue but I'm not sure how much to infer from it...
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Mark Bigney
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The surprise category is still relevant even if you cannot play it out of turn and you don't draw a replacement for it; specifically, you get to play it during your turn, and then you must play another card as well.
 
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Chris Shaffer
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Shouldn't the drawn card go to the discard pile? There is nothing on the am&a card that says the active player gets to keep the drawn card.
 
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Richard Young
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Which "drawn card?" The one you draw to replace the surprise card you just played (routine for surprise cards), or the one you drew from the target player. Whether you get to draw both is the question here - whether you can play one or both of the just drawn cards would depend on what type of card(s) were drawn (surprise?) and what phase you are in (Tyche?). Any further played cards would of course end up on the draw pile.

Are you proposing a situation where a just drawn card must be discarded whether played or not? On what basis? Not having the rules folder in front of me, what did the player in the play example do with the card he drew? If the intent of the card was to remove a card from an opponent's hand it would be worded as such, "randomly select an opponent's card and discard it." If it were worded that way, the question whether one could draw to replace the card just played would have never come up.

The example does not help us here, and it seems neither do the rules nor the FAQ...
 
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Rodolphe Duhil
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Now, it's settled. The living rules (oct 2010) explicitly say p. 18:

58 AHURA MAZDA & AHRIMAN:
He who plays Ahura Mazda gets to keep the drawn card, but does NOT draw another from the deck (as the normal replacement for a surprise card).

The living rules are there :
http://www.gmtgames.com/living_rules/Successors_Rules-Oct201...
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Mark Bigney
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Awesome. Thanks!
 
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