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Descent: The Road to Legend» Forums » Rules

Subject: Soaring, once again rss

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Retired Hurt

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I'm still at odds with soaring rules.

1. A creature with soaring must settle down to attack and will therefore be subject to normal attacks (i.e. without the range penalty).
A creature with flying can attack in the act of flying.
What if a creature has both ? May it attack during its move, then end its movement in soaring position ?

2. What if a soaring creature occupies a tree square ? It looks like it would be impossible to attack, barring some tricks (Kel's ability).

I have a feeling that all tricky questions would be solved if one decided that soaring doesn't physically add to the distance, but merely compels to spend 4 units of range to account for uneasy aiming, in the same way as Fear compels to spend some surges.
 
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Ed Rozmiarek
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Welcome to Descent's attempt to add 3D to a 2D game.

Merrimac wrote:
1. A creature with soaring must settle down to attack and will therefore be subject to normal attacks (i.e. without the range penalty).
A creature with flying can attack in the act of flying.
What if a creature has both ? May it attack during its move, then end its movement in soaring position ?

First off, from the RtL rules on Soaring, page 30: Note that all monsters with the Flying ability also automatically have the Soar ability.

So you can think of Soar as an enhanced Fly. But remember, having Soar does not give the creature Fly. (i.e. A demon does not gain Fly in the dungeons. It only Soars/Flies outdoors. I guess it needs room to stretch its wings.) Anyway, a Soaring creature with a ranged attack (Demon, Shade) may attack while soaring, it just adds +4 to the attack range. However, a Razorwing will need to swoop down to attack since it has a melee attack. Also, there is no partial swoop, it's all or nothing. The creature is at +4 range or it swoops down and there is no range modifier.

Merrimac wrote:
2. What if a soaring creature occupies a tree square ? It looks like it would be impossible to attack, barring some tricks (Kel's ability).

A soaring creature in a tree would gain Shadowcloak and be really tough to hit. The heroes would need to use guard orders to hope to hit the creature as it swoops down. (It's really hard to shoot through those tree branches.) Make it a Soaring Shade in a tree (Shadowcloak) with Ghost and Stealth. How about that for a tough combo?

Merrimac wrote:
I have a feeling that all tricky questions would be solved if one decided that soaring doesn't physically add to the distance, but merely compels to spend 4 units of range to account for uneasy aiming, in the same way as Fear compels to spend some surges.

Sorry, but RAW states soaring adds to the range. You can house rule it as you like as some have done with Soar not blocking LOS and figures being able to move "under" a soaring creature.
 
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T. B.
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edroz wrote:
Welcome to Descent's attempt to add 3D to a 2D game.

Merrimac wrote:
2. What if a soaring creature occupies a tree square ? It looks like it would be impossible to attack, barring some tricks (Kel's ability).

A soaring creature in a tree would gain Shadowcloak and be really tough to hit. The heroes would need to use guard orders to hope to hit the creature as it swoops down. (It's really hard to shoot through those tree branches.) Make it a Soaring Shade in a tree (Shadowcloak) with Ghost and Stealth. How about that for a tough combo?


Actually, doesn't a soaring creature need to swoop down and "land" in the tree space to gain Shadowcloak? That's how I read the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:
Q: Do Soaring creatures benefit from terrain?
A: While a creature is Soaring, it ignores the terrain in its current space. A Soaring creature may choose to “land” and disable its Soar power until its next turn; if it does this it is affected by terrain just like any other figure.


If this is the case, the creature could EITHER gain the +4 range benefit OR Shadowcloak, but not both at the same time.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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bohemian wrote:
edroz wrote:
Welcome to Descent's attempt to add 3D to a 2D game.

Merrimac wrote:
2. What if a soaring creature occupies a tree square ? It looks like it would be impossible to attack, barring some tricks (Kel's ability).

A soaring creature in a tree would gain Shadowcloak and be really tough to hit. The heroes would need to use guard orders to hope to hit the creature as it swoops down. (It's really hard to shoot through those tree branches.) Make it a Soaring Shade in a tree (Shadowcloak) with Ghost and Stealth. How about that for a tough combo?


Actually, doesn't a soaring creature need to swoop down and "land" in the tree space to gain Shadowcloak? That's how I read the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:
Q: Do Soaring creatures benefit from terrain?
A: While a creature is Soaring, it ignores the terrain in its current space. A Soaring creature may choose to “land” and disable its Soar power until its next turn; if it does this it is affected by terrain just like any other figure.


If this is the case, the creature could EITHER gain the +4 range benefit OR Shadowcloak, but not both at the same time.


Yup, at the end of a soaring creature's turn, the OL can decide whether it's currently landed or not, if it's not landed, it doesn't get any terrain benefits.

One weird point about the soaring rules that I think is important to point out, is that soaring creatures are still affected by things like blast and breath that target their squares, even though they're technically not on the square.
 
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M B
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Quote:
A soaring creature in a tree would gain Shadowcloak and be really tough to hit. The heroes would need to use guard orders to hope to hit the creature as it swoops down. (It's really hard to shoot through those tree branches.) Make it a Soaring Shade in a tree (Shadowcloak) with Ghost and Stealth. How about that for a tough combo?


Am I correct in my reading of the rules that only melee attacks can be made during a guard order?

This came up in an outdoor encounter where the leader/master razorwing with +move would swoop down on the mage and ranged heros then safely go back to soaring and move out of line of sight. i.e. he would move to a position where the only ranged attackers would have to do a run action to even be in any reasonable range (in part because soaring creatures ignore all the terrain the heros have to move through to get to them). If either of the magic or ranged heros could have made an interrupt attack the encounter would have been doable.

Rather than settle the issue the heros just ran from the encounter. But we haven't been able to find a definitive answer on the guard order question.
 
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T. B.
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I believe that you can make any legal attack at all as a guard action, as long as all that you do is make an attack (and not spend fatigue for movement or what have you). If I'm wrong, someone please correct me because I've been doing that for about 7 months now!
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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bohemian wrote:
I believe that you can make any legal attack at all as a guard action, as long as all that you do is make an attack (and not spend fatigue for movement or what have you). If I'm wrong, someone please correct me because I've been doing that for about 7 months now!


No need, you are correct. A guard order can be any sort of attack.

The Soar rules say that heroes may use interrupt attacks, even melee attacks when soaring creatures swoop. Even is not only!
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Flamin_Jesus wrote:

Yup, at the end of a soaring creature's turn, the OL can decide whether it's currently landed or not, if it's not landed, it doesn't get any terrain benefits.


Actually, it can land at any part of its turn. It just can't un-land until its next turn.
For example a Soaring creature may well wish to land on the far side of a tree from a hero and then approach the hero by moving into the tree while not soaring (it can still ignore the tree movement penalty if it has Fly), but as it is not soaring the hero cannot do an interrupt attack on it while it is above the tree (for example if the hero had good range capability but was not adjacent to the tree he may be able to shoot a soaring monster but unable to shoot a shadowcloaked landed monster.)

Quote:
One weird point about the soaring rules that I think is important to point out, is that soaring creatures are still affected by things like blast and breath that target their squares, even though they're technically not on the square.


Technically they are in the square, just not affected by terrain in that space.
That is why they still block LOS and prevent movement through them by enemies - they are in that space.
 
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