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Subject: No random runes in Epic? rss

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Purple Paladin

California
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Just played my first game yesterday. We really enjoyed the fake runes, but wanted a longer game. Then we read that playing Epic removes all fake runes.

Could others who have played Epic please tell me why the mechanics of an Epic game require you to remove all fake runes? There seems to be so many game cards/mechanics/stratagies using fakes, we can't figure out why'd they force them out for Epic? It sounds like it would be longer, but less fun.
 
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Andrew
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I think the main reason they don't use false runes is that in a 4 player epic game where each player needs 7 runes to win, you wouldn't want to be limited to 21 real runes between all of them. The epic game uses false runes as replacement real runes, and you can't do that if the false runes actually are false runes.

Also, in my opinion, it is longer but much more fun.
 
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Purple Paladin

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So, they say play with no fake runes, because they did not include enough real rune for 4 players (in a $100 game)? If true yuk

You say it's more fun "without" the fake, and 7 real to win then?
 
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Andrew
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That and it makes it more obvious who is winning and who is not. Also the epic variant is not what they designed the game around; it comes with just enough runes for 3 players to have 5 and one to have 6, which is the worst case scenario for a 4 player short game.

Epic in general is more fun than not, but I don't really like the fake rune mechanic
 
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Dave
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I agree with PP on this one -- want a more "epic" feel to the game, but I do like the fake rune aspect. I'm currently working on some variants that aimed at this fix -- I'll report back if anything catches.
 
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Chad Walton
United States
Springfield
Oregon
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Why not start with two fakes and one real? It would extend the game... or start with nothing, include the fakes, and play an 8 year race to 6 runes...
 
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Purple Paladin

California
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Fake runes played a huge part in our first game. Cost us both a battle and many units attacking a fake rune area. My friend finally got that hero that can see into adjacent hexes to see it they are real or not, and it was a cat and mouse game after that. I would feel much less a sence of "intrigue" without the fakes, but I could see how having no fakes cause much more agressive playing.

We are considering (but have not tried) that when an enemy takes a hex containing a rune from another player, the player that lost the hex/rune draws a fate card, on a gold draw, the rune is changed to a fake. Also considering the player be allowed to spend Influence to draw more cards. Not sure if this would be great (like paying influence on spys, espeinage and deceit in hiding runes) or disasterous. . .
 
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Purple Paladin

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Ok, we tried a 2p game with the following house rules, and it worked really well: You start with 1 real rune in your Home Realm. Every time we "received" a rune, we also took a fake (like in the normal rules).

And, one more important implement: Neither of us was allowed to place any more runes (fake or real) in our home realm (so there was only 1 real rune there ever).

This above changes worked perfectly. There was still some intrigue and strategy with rune placement, and, the combination of still needing 6 to win, but having to expand more to place the runes you collect really made the game excitng from year 2. In addition, knowing there was always 1 real rune in your opponent's home realm somehow gave us an extra "ummph" to push towards the others side. It was also a bit longer/epic than the normal game rules, but not as long (I'm guessing) as the suggested Epic rules. Not to mention, we LOVE our fake runes (got'a have'em).

Of course, that is just one game/playtest, we are going to do a 3p tommorow with the same house rules to see if it works out better that way too.
 
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Joe Gallows
Denmark
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21 runes for 4 players is enough.

6+5+5+5

That's sure to create some tension.
 
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