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Subject: Top Taliban Commander Captured in Secret Raid rss

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I can hardly wait for the Republican response that makes it look like Obama totally fucked this up, and is not engaging in the 'war on terror'.

I'm sure Dick Cheney, or his daughter, will have some choice words.
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C'mon...this is easy. He won't be tortured so we may as well just give him US citizenship and a cushy office job somewhere.

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Honestly, I'm fine if Cheney wants him waterboarded. I want Cheney personally to do it then.
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If a Republican was President then it would have been Bin Laden that was captured cause the Republicans are far more committed to doing whatever it takes to win the war on teror unlike the half-hearted Democrats.

It is clear that it is Obama's fault that Bin Laden is still at large!
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Leo Zappa
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I will be surprised if any serious Republican (read: not a talk show host) has anything but praise for this event. I think some of us get just a little bit too cynical about our politics. I know that while I didn't vote for Obama, I've been pleased with his ramp-up in Afghanistan, and this capture is great as well. Why do we always have to assume the worst in our political thinking? Democrat, Republican - we are all Americans first, and no American be anything but happy to see this Taliban terrorist taken down. Here's a thumbsup to the Obama administration on this success!
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Chad Ellis
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For what it's worth, my first reaction when I saw the headline was, "Awesome!" It didn't even occur to me to think about Republican counter-attacks, and I'm still hopeful that this will be a non-partisan event that everyone can be happy about.

Koldfoot wrote:
Funny how military successes or failures are immediately politicized by the left.


That, however, is hi.lar.ious.
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desertfox2004 wrote:
...I've been pleased with his ramp-up in Afghanistan,...

The above was thumbed in spite of this.

Afghanistan is a no-win situation for the US. Karzai for example controls little beyond Kabul itself and is therefore no different in reality than any other local warlord as I understand it. Once again the US and its allies are basing their policy not on what actually is the correct situation on the ground what what they'd like to think the situation is. So long as the US and allies do not deal with reality in plannign the campaign, no increase in troops or money can help.
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whac3 wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
...I've been pleased with his ramp-up in Afghanistan,...

The above was thumbed in spite of this.

Afghanistan is a no-win situation for the US. Karzai for example controls little beyond Kabul itself and is therefore no different in reality than any other local warlord as I understand it. Once again the US and its allies are basing their policy not on what actually is the correct situation on the ground what what they'd like to think the situation is. So long as the US and allies do not deal with reality in plannign the campaign, no increase in troops or money can help.


Time will tell. US military commanders on the ground in Afghanistan are under no illusions as to what is necessary to be done. Washington might be another story. However, I think the current operation in Marjah is correct in its objectives and tactics, and may serve as an excellent blueprint in how to convert areas of Afghanistan from Taliban control to friendly control. The fact that once an area is converted, NATO troops will now remain to garrison that area, whereas before, due to having insufficient numbers, they would leave, is a great step forward. Just like the troop surge in Iraq turned a probable loss into a likely victory, it may be that the new tactics in Afghanistan may turn this situation around as well.
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Koldfoot wrote:
whac3 wrote:
.

Afghanistan is a no-win situation for the US.
Possibly. Right now I'd wager that we will win. If by winning we can agree that means bringing the Taliban and AlQueda in Afghanistan to a level of ineffectiveness. If by winning you mean turning Afghanistan into a 21st century democracy, then no, we won't win.

The problem is that some-- by no means all-- of the population whether Afghans or Saudis see the people the West calls terrorists as fighting for lofty goals. Often even those who disagree with the means agree with the ends.

Moreover, the goals of the US are unclear. Take for example Iraq. The US came saying they would bring democracy, but they will not let the Iraqis elect whomever they want because many they would elect are thugs and murderers (terrorists). The situation in Afghanistan is different but in many ways comparable.

If the US et al. leave Afghanistan now, the Taliban will reassert control and claim victory over the US and its allies. Much blood and materiel will have been wasted for no lasting purpose. Yet the US is never going to make a stable democracy out of Afghanistan because the local culture is anathema to democracy, at least as understood in the West. So even if everything goes well, the US and allies will have expended resources and more importantly lives for no lasting benefit either.

I laud the soldiers' willingness for self-sacrifice on behalf of others, but the politicians sending the soldiers there are throwing their lives away to no good purpose.
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John Taylor
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Okay, maybe we captured his body, but have we captured his heart? For shame, Obama, for shame.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
For what it's worth, my first reaction when I saw the headline was, "Awesome!" It didn't even occur to me to think about Republican counter-attacks, and I'm still hopeful that this will be a non-partisan event that everyone can be happy about.

Koldfoot wrote:
Funny how military successes or failures are immediately politicized by the left.


That, however, is hi.lar.ious.


Well, color me disappointed. I figured the bellweather for whether the right would say, "Hooray!" or try to spin this into a partisan attack would be Michelle Malkin and she went straight into counter-attack, managing to turn this story into one about Eric Holder, Obama letting down the military and the New Your Times being anti-American and in Obama's pocket.
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John Taylor
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Koldfoot wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Michelle Malkin
Who?


Her nationality is American and nothing else. Does that help?
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Michelle Malkin
Who?


Yeah, who is this??? Not a name I'm familiar with - should I be?
 
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Blogger, tea party cheerleader, occasional Fox News skank, and author of the book "In Defense of Internment", in which she is an apologist for one of the worst Supreme Court decisions in US history (US vs. Korematsu).

Basically, a sexy loudmouthed fascist for right-wingers with an Asian fetish.
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49xjohn wrote:
I can hardly wait for the Republican response that makes it look like Obama totally fucked this up, and is not engaging in the 'war on terror'.

I'm sure Dick Cheney, or his daughter, will have some choice words.


Really? The initial angle of discussion on this topic is a preemptive attack against a supposed Republican response and a slam on Cheney followed by some quick sarcastic remarks? And to think I am spending less time around here.

I agree with Leo that the Republican response is predictable and will be mostly positive. The more interesting question is what do the non-Republicans think? Is this event a thing to be praised or condemned? Is it a good thing that we are in the region to capture guys like this, or should we be out of there because we have no right to be there and guys like this actually pose little threat to the U.S.?
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John Taylor
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Fox News reported about weaponless terrorists taunting Marines. Those deplorable defenseless bastards! We should shoot them and rape the wounds.
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Koldfoot wrote:
whac3 wrote:

Moreover, the goals of the US are unclear.
Clear enough. Make the country NOT a haven for terrorist training. The goal is clear, the strategy is debated.
That's not a clear goal. In practical terms, it means nothing. How does one do that? The culture and history of Afghanistan are what make it a haven for such people.

whac3 wrote:
If the US et al. leave Afghanistan now, the Taliban will reassert control and claim victory over the US and its allies.
Who's talking about leaving now? Or any time soon? [/q][/q]
I was just covering the logical possibilities.
 
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glundee1 wrote:
Blogger, tea party cheerleader, occasional Fox News skank, and author of the book "In Defense of Internment", in which she is an apologist for one of the worst Supreme Court decisions in US history (US vs. Korematsu).

Basically, a sexy loudmouthed fascist for right-wingers with an Asian fetish.


This description is just creepy on so many levels that I went to Wikipedia and read up on her. She is apparently an outspoken political commentator with several books to her credit and a successful blog.

What's creepy is the usage of skank, Asian fetish and sexy to describe her. Those are hardly the words I would expect to be used by someone who I "think" might be a tolerant, accepting liberal who believes in the notion of free speech and acceptance of all peoples no matter their skin color, religion or ideology.

Then I thought about it...hmmm... putting someone down because they are of a different race? Liberal. Putting someone down because they are attractive? Liberal. Putting someone down because they don't think like you? Liberal. Putting someone down because they appeared on Fox? Liberal.

Okay, maybe I was wrong. Your comments weren't creepy, they were exactly what I'd expect from a liberal... racist, sexist, intolerant and inflammatory. You should post here in RSP more often, you fit right in with the majority.
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DW -- the wife and I interact with a lot of "extreme" liberals, being on a college campus and all; countless faculty meetings, committees, etc.

If there is one truth we have arrived at, it is

Liberals are the most open-minded and tolerant people....until you disagree with them. Then your views are "backwards", "creepy", "antiquated', etc. and they have magically transformed into some of the most intolerant people I interact with. Just as a clue, tolerance does not mean only tolerance for what you believe.

Liberals are the religious fundamentalists of political issues.

This is a sweeping generalization, but one that is starting to hold pretty true -- at least in my department.
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Koldfoot wrote:
whac3 wrote:
.

Afghanistan is a no-win situation for the US.
Possibly. Right now I'd wager that we will win. If by winning we can agree that means bringing the Taliban and AlQueda in Afghanistan to a level of ineffectiveness. If by winning you mean turning Afghanistan into a 21st century democracy, then no, we won't win.

I would agree that the larger war on terror is a no win enterprise as it is currently being waged. And by "currently" I don't mean to imply that the Bush administration was doing everything right. That war will be similar to the cold war in that it will drag on for decades and be waged by proxies. That war will be waged until the oil rich Muslim states collapse and funding to terrorist groups ceases, or they win.


Exactly. The problem with the first part is, removing these groups from Afghanistan is like removing roaches from one room of your house. It doesn't mean you got rid of them, just means they moved to a different room.

As for your prior statement, the left is FAR from being the only side that politicizes things like this.
 
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SpaceGhost wrote:
Liberals are the most open-minded and tolerant people....until you disagree with them. Then your views are "backwards", "creepy", "antiquated', etc. and they have magically transformed into some of the most intolerant people I interact with. Just as a clue, tolerance does not mean only tolerance for what you believe.


Tolerance means I think you get to believe whatever you like. It doesn't say anywhere I have to think well of you for believing whatever you like.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
What's creepy is the usage of skank, Asian fetish and sexy to describe her.


Agreed.

It's a shame you couldn't stop there and not go into another one of your hateful rants in which you carefully avoid naming names but basically insult everyone who disagrees with you in some of the worst ways possible.
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mightygodking wrote:
SpaceGhost wrote:
Liberals are the most open-minded and tolerant people....until you disagree with them. Then your views are "backwards", "creepy", "antiquated', etc. and they have magically transformed into some of the most intolerant people I interact with. Just as a clue, tolerance does not mean only tolerance for what you believe.


Tolerance means I think you get to believe whatever you like. It doesn't say anywhere I have to think well of you for believing whatever you like.


Actually it does:

from the freedictionary.com


tolerance: The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.


I would wager that most people would think that "backwards", "creepy", etc. are pejoratives that don't fall under the umbrella of respect. The bigger point is that liberals are a different side of the same coin as the conservatives --- they both have already reached their conclusion and aren't really interested in a true "melding" of ideas.


EDIT: The even bigger point is that this kind of "dismissal" of other ideas is what, in my view, is causing the Democratic majority to flounder about. The very dismissal of things such as Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, populist anger, etc. is costing them what is likely the opportunity of a lifetime to truly reform the country of the better. They are dead set in "having their cake and eating it too" that they have over-looked some more pragmatic solutions that could benefit everyone. Additionally, they assume that people only like Palin (as an example) because "they are idiots and she is an idiot". Rather, a big dose of self-reflection could help them more effectively understand what the people truly want.
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mightygodking wrote:
Tolerance means I think you get to believe whatever you like. It doesn't say anywhere I have to think well of you for believing whatever you like.


Yes and no. I think tolerance in the broad sense means not just that people get to hold whatever beliefs they want but a recognition that when we differ it is likely to be in good faith.

I do think a lot of liberals fall short in this area. For example, when a conservative says we should cut taxes and reduce government spending, many liberals not only disagree but assume that the person holds that position because they are selfish rather than because they think it's good policy. This comes up a lot in the welfare debate, with a lot of people unable or unwilling to listen to arguments about dependency and traps and just assuming that any opposition to welfare is heartless.

I do think it's ironic, though, when conservatives get all up in arms about it, rather than recognizing it as a human failing we're all prone to. For every liberal calling someone racist, homophobic, selfish or backwards there's a conservative calling someone a socialist, a leech, an America hater, weak, or...what's the term that gets used here? Oh right, a pussy boy.

People across the political spectrum could stand to walk a mile in each other's shoes.
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DarthXaos wrote:
If I had a nickel for every time we captured Al Qaeda or the Taliban's "number 2 guy" my student loans would be paid off.


At the very least, your Valentine's Day would have been 1/2 hour longer than it was.
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