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Subject: Cold War tactical ground combat game question rss

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Andrew Brown
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Does anyone remember any Cold War tactical (or operational) level games in which there was French units.

Assault Series had US, Dutch, German and British but I don't think they had French. The First Battle series had Sands of War with some French armour but that's it.

Can anyone think of other games set in the era that had French units? (LNL has one coming out but it's not on the P500 yet).
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Not specifically, but Firepower had a ruleset where any nations troops could be simulated with enough research.

Off the subject a little, but when I was in the Army Cadets in the mid 80's, around the age of 15, we turned up at the barracks one evening, as usual, only to be confronted by panicked looking officers and NCOs, and a maximum alert status. When we questioned what was going on, they told us that the Russians had dropped a nuclear bomb on France, thus starting WWIII. We fell for it hook, line, and indeed sinker. It was one of those things that was so implausible that it had to be true. It was only when several of the cadets had literally peed themselves and were beginning to cry that they told us that it was all indeed a massive set up, 'just for laughs'.
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I believe City Fight had French units (or the OOB for them), but I'm not 100% sure.
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Hunga Dunga
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I think Sixth Fleet had French naval units, but not 100% sure.
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Bill Eldard
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ab5000 wrote:
Does anyone remember any Cold War tactical (or operational) level games in which there was French units.


There are at least two tactical-level games set at Dien Bien Phu (Units are company size)

Citadel: The Battle of Dien Bien Phu

La vallée de la mort


There are also several operational/strategic-level Indochina games, one of which is

Indochina War (French and colonial units are mostly brigade size)

An operational-level game on Algerian independence is

Algeria: The War of Independence 1954-1962 (Though as I recall, the units don't bear historical designations)

Two operational-level (division size) games set in Cold War Europe are

NATO: Operational Combat in Europe in the 1970's (set in the 1970s)

The Third World War
(set in the 1980s)
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Sixth Fleet does indeed have French ships in, as does Harpoon (also some French aircraft). Flight Leader and Air Superiority also have some French aircraft, and of course there's always the "De Gaulle leads France" card in Twilight Struggle if you want to count him as a French unit.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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tc237 wrote:


I was thinking of the one from a decade earlier: NATO: Operational Combat in Europe in the 1970's had brigade level French:



[edit] Just noticed it even uses French Mech in the unit breakdown chart:

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There were lots of hypothetical games during the 70s and 80s covering ground combat in Europe. The tactical ones tended to focus on early engagements, because those were easiest to forecast. With France not being part of NATO, that meant US, German and British units in the front lines, so typically no French units in those games.

When you step it up to operational level, the thinking was that the Soviets would take a lot of ground early, so French participation was inevitable, and most if not all of those games have French units in the counter mix.
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Leo Zappa
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Not in the original box, but I think Tac Air had French units added in an expansion published in an edition of The General magazine.
 
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Bill Eldard
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Sphere wrote:
. . . With France not being part of NATO, that meant US, German and British units in the front lines, so typically no French units in those games.

When you step it up to operational level, the thinking was that the Soviets would take a lot of ground early, so French participation was inevitable, and most if not all of those games have French units in the counter mix.


DeGaulle removed the French armed forces from the NATO military command structure in the early '60s, but France remained a member of NATO, and belonged to a number of military alliances with NATO members, such as the West European Union. I believe it was shortly before the demise of the USSR that France officially rejoined the NATO military structure.

Consequently, French forces routinely trained with NATO forces such as the Bundeswehr, and 2-3 French divisions were stationed in the southwestern part of the Bundesrepublik. As a US soldier in West Germany, I remember participating as a member of Orange in REFORGER '74 when our tactical radios were being jammed by French specialists on the Blue team.

As I recall, the French Army went through a major reorg in the late '70s or '80s, resulting in their divisions being reduced in size to the size of NATO brigades (Frank Chadwick reflected this in his OOB for The Third World War.) I think regiments were comprised of three companies. Maybe someone more familiar with that can offer better details.





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An upcoming title in the World At War series will include the French. I forget the title, or if they have even settled on a title, but it is a few positions down on the production queue, after Operation Garbo and The Untold Stories.
 
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Eldard wrote:
DeGaulle removed the French armed forces from the NATO military command structure in the early '60s, but France remained a member of NATO, and belonged to a number of military alliances with NATO members, such as the West European Union. I believe it was shortly before the demise of the USSR that France officially rejoined the NATO military structure.

Consequently, French forces routinely trained with NATO forces such as the Bundeswehr, and 2-3 French divisions were stationed in the southwestern part of the Bundesrepublik. As a US soldier in West Germany, I remember participating as a member of Orange in REFORGER '74 when our tactical radios were being jammed by French specialists on the Blue team.

As I recall, the French Army went through a major reorg in the late '70s or '80s, resulting in their divisions being reduced in size to the size of NATO brigades (Frank Chadwick reflected this in his OOB for The Third World War.) I think regiments were comprised of three companies. Maybe someone more familiar with that can offer better details.


I guess I mis-remembered, Bill, thanks for correcting my sloppiness. Too bad, as it seemed like such a handy answer for why there were never French units in any of those NATO vs. Warsaw Pact tactical games!
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George Haberberger
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Berlin '85 has a few French units.
 
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Fred Schwarz
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SPI's Fulda Gap had French units.
 
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Shauneroo wrote:
It was only when several of the cadets had literally peed themselves and were beginning to cry that they told us that it was all indeed a massive set up, 'just for laughs'.


Christ - I can't imagine what you guys must have felt until you were told the truth. I wonder if any of your American counterparts ever had that prank pulled on them?
 
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John Kovacs
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Air War: Modern Tactical Air Combat also has French aircraft in it, including one of my favorites, the Dassault Mystere IVA.

Flight Leader as mentioned above, has many French aircraft in it, mostly Mirages but it also includes the Mystere IVA and the Super Mystere B.2.
 
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Clifford Mudd
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The 3rd World War series by GDW had french units.
 
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Kenneth Bailey
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Sixth Fleet did have French Units. Test of Arms may have had French units in it. It's post Cold War, but Battlefield Europe has them. I think they are in Modern Naval Battles as well.
 
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