Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

Endeavor» Forums » General

Subject: Own and Love Goa and Puerto Rico...Do I Need This, Too? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Doron Blake
United States
Lakeville
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Generally speaking, I love games, but I only have so much money and space, so I try to avoid getting too many games that occupy the same basic flavor/mechanics space. For example, I got rid of my copy of Cuba because, although it is a fine game, it just felt too much like a "worse Puerto Rico" to me. Can anyone comment on whether Endeavor defines something new and interesting for itself compared to Goa, PR, or other classics such that I should buy it as well?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Bart
United States
Winnetka
California
flag msg tools
designer
Baseball been bery bery good to me
badge
This is a picture of a published game designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would unload Goa and Puerto Rico and buy Endeavor.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lo Ma
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've never played Goa, but Endeavor have completely different flavors. Endeavor is lighter and much more abstract. I'd say the 2 games have nothing in common. And I like them both, but Endeavor (or Cuba) is more likely to hit my table...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
Sebastopol (Ballarat)
Victoria
flag msg tools
That's Karl on the left. Eternity on the right.
badge
I love Melissa, but don't tell her. It's a secret if she can find this. Shhhhh....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No. You only need Agricola.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Sachs
United States
Woodinville
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Despite your hope, there is not even any inherent symbolism; gravity is simply a coincidence.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GeneSteeler wrote:
No. You only need Agricola.

... if you're looking for a laxative.

Staying on topic, I too love both Puerto Rico and Goa. I have Cuba, and am not too impressed, on the verge of trading it, but want to give it a bit more time. At this point in time, I will play Endeavor before either PR or Goa.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Diosi
Canada
Newcastle
Ontario
flag msg tools
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I own and love PR and Goa also.

I have Endeavor and think it is different enough to keep it in my collection. Endeavor is interesting because of the dilemma you are faced with each turn. Do you try to keep up with the exploration towards India by the other players OR do you go for that first spot in the Far East (which will net you a token you don't need but will make you top dog in the race for the Far East governorship). These kinds of choices each turn make for a tense and fulfilling experience as good as but different from Goa and PR.

My $0.02
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Eisen
United States
Menlo Park
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Certainly different from Goa and Puerto Rico as it has a common board with direct competition and conflict over territory. Hard to think of anything else in the Endeavor niche --- maybe Hansa Teutonica?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kris Johnson
Canada
Quesnel
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think if you are expecting Endevor to be like PR or Goa, then you clearly do not know what to expect. They are completely different games. I like them a lot, and I think that not only do they play out using different mechanics, but I think you will find that some of your game group prefers the one, while others prefer the other.

Just go ahead and get it. You won't be disappointed.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maarten D. de Jong
Netherlands
Zaandam
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
twilightdruid wrote:
For example, I got rid of my copy of Cuba because, although it is a fine game, it just felt too much like a "worse Puerto Rico" to me.

Then you didn't 'get' that game, because if you had you'd have seen the comparison is not warranted. PR is long term planning, Cuba is short term weasling. Playing Cuba like it were PR is a mistake the game won't survive. Whether or not this knowledge would have led to a better appreciation of Cuba is quite another matter, though.

Quote:
Can anyone comment on whether Endeavor defines something new and interesting for itself compared to Goa, PR, or other classics such that I should buy it as well?

It is always difficult—I'd even say dangerous—to compare one game to arbitrary others if the comparison criteria are not clear. Here's my opinion though: Defining something new? Not in terms of brand new, never-before seen game-defining genres, of course; though the mechanisms in place serve their purpose very well. You mention PR and Goa: I'd put Endeavor closer to Goa than to PR. There is no character selection and subsequent action contention in Endeavor (although Endeavor knows about turn order-related resource contention), and the mechanic with buildings supporting discs functions differently, too, although you'd say otherwise from merely glancing at the pictures. There is no positive feedback loop in the Endeavor's growth mechanisms: buildings are given to you, they are not purchased with funds obtained from earlier sales. With Goa Endeavor shares the development tracks, although they are somewhat more fluid in nature, and do not represent actions you can take: they're more like abilities which are bestowed upon you automatically. When I play Endeavor I never have the feeling that I'm playing some derivative of Puerto Rico or Goa: the game is clearly itself, requiring very different tactics to win. The topological positioning on the board itself is completely alien to Goa and Puerto Rico, for example.

That all said, my advice: if you are willing to meet Endeavor on its own terms, then it is a game you can purchase; if you insist to look upon it as some further enhancement of either Goa or Puerto Rico then it depends on what exactly you find worth enhancing in those two titles. I don't think they are particularly good titles to base the comparison on, though.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarratt Gray
New Zealand
Upper Hutt
Wellington
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dkeisen wrote:
Certainly different from Goa and Puerto Rico as it has a common board with direct competition and conflict over territory. Hard to think of anything else in the Endeavor niche --- maybe Hansa Teutonica?


Though Hansa Teutonica isn't in Endeavor's niche at all. It is a connections game much more akin to Thurn and Taxi's. The good thing about HT is that is steals the action evolution mechanic from Goa to make it a far more interesting game. Note that HT isn't like Goa at all either.

As I am one of the designers of Endeavor my comment could be taken with a grain of salt. I think that Endeavor has a similar weight to Puerto Rico. If you are looking for those sorts of games to add to your collection then Endeavor gives a different play experience but from a similar level of game.

Goa is a longer game and slightly heavier because of the reliance on auctions, but all 3 are quite different games, albeit based around development of some kind.

Essentially if you like PR and Goa you should probably get Endeavor because you will like it too and it is quite different. Or at least I like all 3, but like I said you should probably listen to others more than me.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Eisen
United States
Menlo Park
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Granted Endeavor and HT are not that close. But both have individual player boards which provide growth abilities to the players, a similar kind of action management, and directly confrontational board play where you boot players out of their current locations. Neither feels much like Thurn & Taxis which is pretty much a straight race game.

Core differences with HT are that in Endeavor, you get substantial direct VP for improving your capabilities while in HT, it's mostly just improved capabilities. Endeavor is like Goa in this respect, of course, although it's pretty unlike Goa in every other respect. Other core difference with HT is the theme and general growth/exploration on the board.

Endeavor doesn't really feel like much else I've played, although each piece of it can be marked akin to a similar mechanic in another game.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mendon Dornbrook
United States
Phoenix
AZ
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I own and love Goa and PR, too. I played Endeavour 3 times before I decided that it was bland. I'd recommend a different style of game, altogether, or at least a game that uses different mechanisms. I'd say Race for the Galaxy or San Juan would be a good next purchase. After that, I'd test the waters of more complex games, like Power Grid, Last Train to Wensleydale, or Agricola.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Wiebe
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
Green is the colour, football is the game; we're all together, and winning is our aim!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DocStryder wrote:
I own and love PR and Goa also.

I have Endeavor and think it is different enough to keep it in my collection. Endeavor is interesting because of the dilemma you are faced with each turn. Do you try to keep up with the exploration towards India by the other players OR do you go for that first spot in the Far East (which will net you a token you don't need but will make you top dog in the race for the Far East governorship). These kinds of choices each turn make for a tense and fulfilling experience as good as but different from Goa and PR.

My $0.02

Yeah what he said. I think Goa is the better overall game personally. But each has their niche. More abstract, lighter than Goa, but still fun.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Glenn Drover
United States
Plainfield
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I just played Endeavor for the first time last weekend and loved it. So much so that I bought it a few days later.

Played it agina and still loved it (though I messed up on the last turn and came in third out of four).

If I had to rank them right this minute, I prefer Endeavor to both PR (which I'm a bit tired of), and Goa (which I like, but don't LOVE).

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
unkle
France
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd say you should try it at least 2/3 times to make up your mind. For me, first game was great (discovery kick). Second game was less impressing at the beginning (looks too simple and short, right ?) and third game was great because there is indeed some meat in the game that could be hidden in your first play.

I do not see any reason to compare the game to PR myself (left-right binding maybe ), and Goa is definitely the meatier game for me (probably my favorite of the 3, but the auctions ARE Goa I think, and I am an auction-fanboy...). I really think you should try it anyway, Endeavor is a really good game. Shorter for sure, but still tense enough to make it a valuable addition to a game collection.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Art Vandelay
Canada
100 Mile House
BC
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wasnt very hyped on Endeavor. Like you, I was thinking that i already had plenty of other similar types of games. I didnt get myt FLGS to order it in for me when it was released. He ended up ordering it anyways for the store. I ended up getting anyways just because it was there..lol.
I finally got to try it for the first time last weekend and BOY am I ever glad I bought it. Puerto Rico is great, Goa is awesome. and Endeavor is amazing. You need all 3!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rufus Frog
United Kingdom
Gosford
Oxfordshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think this is sufficiently different from all those other resource management / token placement games to be worth getting. I've not played Goa but it doesn't 'feel' much like Puerto Rico to me - the main similarity (imho) is the need for adaptive strategies, e.g. you may start out thinking of dominating Europe but if 2 other players go down that route you're probably better off investing elsewhere (whereas in Puerto Rico you may be inclined towards coffee but if 2 other players go down that route...).

When I bought it the game I was most afraid it would be like was Age of Empires III (as in both games you start in Europe and then try to conquer the world by placing your pieces) but I needn't have worried; Endeavor is much more abstract and streamlined (in its range of decisions); again the 'feel' is quite different.

Another key factor for me is the playing time; after a bit of practice it should not take more than an hour so it is much easier to slot into a games evening than say, Le Havre (or even AofE III). My 'usual' group normally manages 1 meaty game (e.g. Puerto Rico, Power Grid) followed by a quick round of Fluxx or Incan Gold of an evening; yesterday we managed Race For the Galaxy and Endeavor and didn't finish too late, which was great, so Endeavor is definitely a keeper for us!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
alan beaumont
United Kingdom
LONDON
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
More haste less Speed
rufusfrog wrote:
Another key factor for me is the playing time; after a bit of practice it should not take more than an hour so it is much easier to slot into a games evening...
Yes, we found this, after a bit of practise you are done in under an hour. A bit more practice demonstrates that you need to think quite carefully to compete properly (everyone gets more cunning) and the time readjusts back to 1hr 10 - to 1hr 20 with 4 players.
This is a good thing. meeple
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Pinchback
United States
Leonard
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have never played Goa, which is a failure on my part, but I own PR and Endeavor both. The buildings and "workers" seem kind of similar, but they play differently enough. There is one other similarity, and that is the rotating starting player (the Governor aspect of PR). In both games, you have to be aware of turn order now and next turn so that you can plan out your moves properly.

The games really are completely different though. Shipping in PR is actually putting goods on boats for points. In Endeavor, shipping is tantamount to claiming sea space or racing for influence in an area. Endeavor has no "money", PR has no map.

Everyone who has played Endeavor with me wants to play it more. That's the best compliment you can give a game.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Brown
United States
North Adams
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The quick answer is: It depends how many times you've played Goa and Puerto Rico. Having played all three, I think both Goa and Puerto Rico are better games. That being said, right now I'd much rather play Endeavor than Puerto Rico, but that's because I've played probably a hundred games of Puerto Rico, and only three of Endeavor. (I'd still rather play Goa than either, because something about that game is pure crack.) I'm not sure Endeavor has the replayability of Goa and PR over the long term, but I do know that I want to play it again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.