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Subject: What is "Game Play Weight" rss

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Aphicha Phawapaphawin
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As the topic

Game Play Weight when you add the information about each game.

Tense? / Time consume?

Please clarify.
 
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Jim Cote
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People use it for many things: how hard the game is to learn, how difficult it is to play well, how complex it is, etc. Note that it is not a linear scale. Advanced Squad Leader (weight 4.7) is not twice as "heavy" as Ra (2.4). It's perhaps 50 times as heavy.
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Daniel Danzer
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It shows the average of the ratios between the amount of mental work (memory, logic, probability calculation, concentration over a certain time, etc.) a game requires to be played as it was designed and the self-assessment of the ability to do this work of all individuals who "weighted" the game on a scale between 1 ("I can do that while sleeping!") and 5 ("I just ... WTF? ... I forgot again ... this is counter-intuitive! ... my brain hurts!").

So, to estimate the "weight" of a game, check all abilities you need to play it, rate each ability for yourself on a scale from 1 to 5 and calculate the average. That`s the subjective weight of the game regarding your own self-assessment.

Usually, the amount of luck decreases the weight - a mystery not solved yet, since it doesn`t say anything about how you might handle the luck - which can be very work-consuming for your mind.

Feel free to surprise yourself!
 
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Aphicha Phawapaphawin
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Is "Game Play Weight" involved the Geek rating?
 
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Daniel Danzer
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armourer84 wrote:
Is "Game Play Weight" involved the Geek rating?

Nope. But mostly, games with an average weight of "1" are considered to be not too good.
 
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Sven
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I would like to stress, that weight is very subjective. What one person rates as "medium-light" might be "heavy" by someone elses standards and vice versa. There is no guideline at all - it is more of a feeling, how "heavy" you think the combination of gameplay, rules etc. is.
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Daniel
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Tanakor wrote:
I would like to stress, that weight is very subjective. What one person rates as "medium-light" might be "heavy" by someone elses standards and vice versa. There is no guideline at all - it is more of a feeling, how "heavy" you think the combination of gameplay, rules etc. is.


That is why I don't use it. To me, it seems utterly useless, unless there was a set standard stating WHAT EXACTLY is meant by "medium" or "light", etc. But, knowing that every player experiences games differently, even descriptions like "easy" or "very difficult and brain-burning" could be applied to the same game by 2 different players, thus invalidating the very meaning of the whole issue.



Maybe it should be transformed to "Difficulty Level", where users can, like with the games' rating, enter numbers between 1 (can be played blindfolded and drunk) and 10 (real brain-burner), based on their own experiences with this game?
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Sven
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Engoduun wrote:
That is why I don't use it. To me, it seems utterly useless, unless there was a set standard stating WHAT EXACTLY is meant by "medium" or "light", etc.

Nope...can't agree with you. If 200 users have rated it, it DOES say something about the weight of the game. If you also look at the distribution of ratings you'll get a pretty good idea.
There will be no way, to quantify "game weight" in any way. So you can only work with this subjective scale - which is fine.
 
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Daniel
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Tanakor wrote:
Engoduun wrote:
That is why I don't use it. To me, it seems utterly useless, unless there was a set standard stating WHAT EXACTLY is meant by "medium" or "light", etc.

Nope...can't agree with you. If 200 users have rated it, it DOES say something about the weight of the game. If you also look at the distribution of ratings you'll get a pretty good idea.
There will be no way, to quantify "game weight" in any way. So you can only work with this subjective scale - which is fine.


So, if the average weight is, for example, Heavy - does that really say I will find it difficult, too?

Distribution of ratings?! What do you mean by that?
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Russ Williams
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The BGG wiki page Weight has more discussion of the many interpretations of "weight".
 
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Darrell Hanning
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Game "weight" is the square root of how many copies of the rulebook plus components it takes to weigh the same amount as Arnold the pig, from Green Acres.

And if it isn't that, it might be more useful if it were.
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Jonathan Morton
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Tanakor wrote:
Engoduun wrote:
That is why I don't use it. To me, it seems utterly useless, unless there was a set standard stating WHAT EXACTLY is meant by "medium" or "light", etc.

Nope...can't agree with you. If 200 users have rated it, it DOES say something about the weight of the game.


It many cases it does say something, but there are enough exceptions to make it useless.

For example, which is more difficult to teach, El Grande or Commands & Colors: Ancients? BGG has El Grande at 3.2 weight and C & C at 2.7. In my experience I've taught El Grande as a "next step" game just above gateway games, but Commands & Colors is a bear that I can only teach to "gamers".

Quote:
There will be no way, to quantify "game weight" in any way. So you can only work with this subjective scale - which is fine.


The scale could be much less subjective and thus much more useful. For example

"How difficult is it to learn the rules?"

There will be much more consensus and consistency on that question than what we currently have.
 
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Darrell Hanning
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Tanakor wrote:
Engoduun wrote:
That is why I don't use it. To me, it seems utterly useless, unless there was a set standard stating WHAT EXACTLY is meant by "medium" or "light", etc.

Nope...can't agree with you. If 200 users have rated it, it DOES say something about the weight of the game. If you also look at the distribution of ratings you'll get a pretty good idea.
There will be no way, to quantify "game weight" in any way. So you can only work with this subjective scale - which is fine.


Yes, it does say "something". But what? That perhaps 190 Eurogamers thought a certain game was "heavy", while 10 wargamers thought it was a walk in the park?

Sorry, but while I do subscribe to the notion that all gamers should have input as to the acceptability (that is, "rating") of a game, I do not subscribe to the notion that they are all qualified to measure the complexity of a game - based on their relative experience or inexperience - on an absolute scale. Certainly, there is no easy way to quantify game weight, but that still doesn't make it analagous to game rating in terms of how subjective it should be.

And in any case, a scale that only goes to 4 compresses all ratings, and makes granularity nearly impossible. It's like making an engineering drawing with dull crayons.
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Russ Williams
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DarrellKH wrote:
Yes, it does say "something". But what? That perhaps 190 Eurogamers thought a certain game was "heavy", while 10 wargamers thought it was a walk in the park?

It's worse than that even:

Different people have different ideas of what "heavy" even means: you mentioned "complexity", but for some people it's about the rules length, or play time length, or strategic depth, or difficulty of learning/teaching, etc etc.

For many games, these all (loosely) correlate, so it's not such a big problem (which seems to be Tanakor's point)... but that's not true for all games.

E.g. many abstract combinatorial games (go, chess, etc) have very simple rules that are quick to learn, yet very deep strategy that requires serious thinking and study and experience to play well. By some people's idea of "heavy", they are not heavy; by other people's idea of "heavy", they are very heavy.
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Wolfgang Zelller
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Question: "What is Game Play Weight?"

Answer: "In my eyes it is rather useless."

I would love to see this statistic ditched and replaced by two numbers that actually would say something valid:

1. Rules complexity

2. Thought depth
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Wolfgang Zelller
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Tanakor wrote:
I would like to stress, that weight is very subjective.

Well said. And I would like to stress where the subjectivity starts here:

There is no basic problem with rather well-defined factors that get rated subjectively. Rating systems work with that principle.

The much worse problem with "Game Weight" is that the definition/interpretation of the factor is already completely subjective, leading to almost worthless data. Ever so often people mistake this as the physical weight of the box... I know I did once...
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