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Subject: Attacking army size limit? rss

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Craig Rose
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Is there a limit to the number of units in the army I attack with?

If there is none and I attack with an army of 12 units and all 12 of them remain standing after the battle, what happens to the 4 units that exceed the stacking limit of 8 in the event that I won the battle?
 
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Andrew
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A player may never have more than eight of his units in an area
(including allied neutral units). If a player moves units into an area
causing it to contain more than eight units, he must destroy units
until he has eight or fewer in the area.
The only time a player can exceed this number is when he is starting
a battle in an enemy or neutral area, in which case he may bring any
number of units into the battle. If he wins the battle, any excess
units must retreat to a single area (see “Retreats” on page 22).


Then...

When figures are forced to retreat from an area, the controller of
the units must move all retreating units to one adjacent area. The
area that they must retreat to depends upon the type of figure:
• Player Controlled Units: These units must always retreat to
an adjacent friendly area. If there are no adjacent friendly areas
to retreat to, they may retreat to an adjacent empty area. If
there is still nowhere to retreat to, they are destroyed.
• Unallied Neutral Units: The player to the left of the current
player chooses an adjacent uncontrolled area for these units
to retreat into. If there are no adjacent uncontrolled areas, the
units are destroyed.
• Heroes: Heroes may retreat to any adjacent area. Heroes are
rarely forced to retreat (since they do not participate in battles,
and duels do not force retreats).
When a figure retreats, it is always routed.
After retreating, if the number of units in an area exceeds eight, then
the owner must destroy units until he has eight or less in the area.
Both routed and standing units always count toward this limit.
Units must follow all movement restrictions when retreating, and
may not normally retreat over red or blue borders (except during
the winter or if the unit is flying, see “Movement Restrictions” on
page 18).
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Andrew
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From page 18 and 22 respectively.
 
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Craig Rose
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This is a follow-up question.

Suppose I went into battle with 12 units and 4 of them were routed and the other 8 were still standing. In the event that I won the battle, could I retreat the 4 who were routed during this battle or must I retreat 4 units from those that are still standing?
 
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Scott Lewis
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Yes, the 4 that were routed already can be the ones that you retreat.


Be careful with how many you bring into battle, though; since all the excess have to retreat to a single area, bringing more than 16 into battle will result in some units dying one way or another.
 
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Chris Orszak
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The overstack rule is about the only thing in this game I'm not feeling "warm and fuzzy" about at the moment. This may be tied to the three player game where we have had a tendency to see choke points in the middle of the map, but it seemed as if most of the major engagements involved the attacker sending in nearly twice as many units as the defender so that even with a stronghold in the position, attacker victory was the likely outcome. If the attacker protects his flanks, he can retreat the excess to a well protected space.

It's good strategy given the rules, but just seemed to take some of the drama out of important combats since unless the defender gets really lucky, they are most likely to lose. I almost wish that excess attackers were killed off at the end of the battle, so you could use it when needed but there was more of a price to be paid.

Anyone else seeing this?


 
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Scott Lewis
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The danger with overstacking during an attack is that you are commiting a lot of guys to the battle - guys which will be unavailable the rest of the year. Even in a 2-player game, you have to be careful, because your opponent could take advantage of this, and attack the region your excess units move to (which are routed, making them helpless), or one of the regions you likely had to somewhat vacate to get all of them in there.

This game is definitely an attackers game. But the overstacking can be overcome using Strongholds, especially if you have developments on the stronghold to make them stronger. Sure, Conquer can mitigate it somewhat, but that's what conquer is about.

Were it not for the attacker being allowed to overstack, this game would turn into a defensive turtle game, I think.
 
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Ergo Proxy
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12 Guys? isn't the limit of units per area 8? the max number on the food resource?
 
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Guido Gloor
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Ergo Proxy wrote:
12 Guys? isn't the limit of units per area 8? the max number on the food resource?

The stacking limit is 8, yes. Nobody said anything else in this entire thread.
 
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Craig Rose
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Ergo Proxy wrote:
12 Guys? isn't the limit of units per area 8? the max number on the food resource?

You can go into a hex with more than 8. However, anything more than 8 would need to be eliminated.

The exception is for battles. You can move in as many units as you want for a battle. Once the battle is over, you check the stacking limit.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Orgak wrote:
The overstack rule is about the only thing in this game I'm not feeling "warm and fuzzy" about at the moment. This may be tied to the three player game where we have had a tendency to see choke points in the middle of the map, but it seemed as if most of the major engagements involved the attacker sending in nearly twice as many units as the defender so that even with a stronghold in the position, attacker victory was the likely outcome. If the attacker protects his flanks, he can retreat the excess to a well protected space.

It's good strategy given the rules, but just seemed to take some of the drama out of important combats since unless the defender gets really lucky, they are most likely to lose. I almost wish that excess attackers were killed off at the end of the battle, so you could use it when needed but there was more of a price to be paid.

Anyone else seeing this?



To be honest, if it weren't for the attacker's ability to overstack, the game would rapidly devolve into a turtle-fest, especially in chokepoints. Imagine trying to attack a Human Stronghold at full strength with the +2 bonus, filled with 8 units, including a few Seige Towers. Even with a Conquer order, you're going to have to get really lucky to pull off a victory there, and if you fail, it's only a recruit and a fortify away from being back where it was before.

With the ability to overstack, you can even the odds.


I like the overstack rule. It makes the game an attackers game, not a defenders game.
 
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Craig Rose
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I like the overstack rule. It makes the game an attackers game, not a defenders game.

This is one of the elements why I prefer RuneWars to TI3. In TI3, battles can be so devastating to the attacker that most players simply find a spot and turtle, especially once you capture Mecatol Rex.

In RuneWars, it is not uncommon to see specific tiles change hands several times over the course of the game.
 
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