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Descent: Journeys in the Dark» Forums » Rules

Subject: Dodging blast with Skye and pits rss

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Tyler Mercedes
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Couple of questions here relating to blast, and a couple to acrobat.

Situation 1:

XXAS
XXXB
XCXX
XXXX

Skye is next to monsters A and B.
Hero casts a blast attack on monster C.
The blast range is able to hit A, B and C.

Is the OL allowed to play a dodge card in this situation since the blast attack is targeted on Monster C's square, who is not next to Skye.

If the OL is allowed to play this card and the attack's effect is reduced so that monsters A B and C would now take no damage, who takes damage? In the rules it says that when dodge causes a dice re-roll the new dice affect all monsters, except in this situation dodge is 'restricted'.
> Do all monsters take no damage?
> Do only the monsters next to Skye take damage (ie A,B take damage and C does not - this is how the heros thought it should be.)
> Can this card not be played in the first place?

Situation 2:
This is similar to the previous one, but regarding fear and its effect on dodge.

XDXA
XXXB

We have a Named Demon with Fear 3 (D) and two beastmen (A, B).
Hero blasts beastman A, the range extends to beastman B and the Named Demon with Fear 3.

If the hero's attack does not overcome fear, who does it hurt?
Only the beastmen? Or does it miss all 3?


Acrobat
I know there have been a lot of questions about acrobat but I couldn't find the answers I was looking for so here are my questions:

1. Do pits give damage to a hero with acrobat when passing through? Can the hero with this skill end his turn on a pit without taking damage?

Additionally, if a hero has acrobat and is knocked back across or into a pit, does he take damage?

2. If a treasure chest has a monster on it, can a hero use acrobat to open it from underneath the monster?


Oh and also: Does grapple work though doors?


Thank you
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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Dodge and Fear both change the entire attack. In your first example, I don't see any reason that monster C would be unable to dodge, and if he dodges, that changes the attack result for everyone in the blast radius, not just monster C. In your second example, if the hero can't overcome Fear, the entire attack becomes a miss, though keep in mind that he could choose not to spend surges on increasing the Blast radius, and thus he wouldn't be forced to hit the demon unless the attack inherently had Blast 2.

Acrobat allows a hero to "enter and move through obstacles without effect," which means no damage, whether you end your movement there or not.

"A hero cannot open a chest if the chest is in the same space as another figure." (rules page 18) Even if the other figure is a hero, having anyone stand on a chest stops anyone else from opening it. Acrobat provides no ability to get around this restriction.
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James McMurray
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All of the monsters in the first scenario would take 0 damage. Skye stops the overlord from playing Dodge on a monster, but if an AoE is dodged anyway, the dodge affects the entire attack.

If the fear is not overcome, the entire attack misses.

A hero with acrobat takes no damage from pits he enters. He still takes damage if a pit trap is played on him.

A hero with acrobat can open chests under monsters IF you are going by the Giant List of Answered Questions on the FFG forums, where a customer service person (possibly Kevin Wilson?) says that it's allowed. If you aren't using that thread, then the answer is no, as the base rules don't allow it and Acrobat does not specificallyoverride that rule.
 
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Tyler Mercedes
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Thanks for the quick replies guys. I think that covers my questions.

Does anyone know about the grapple through doors?
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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James McMurray wrote:
A hero with acrobat can open chests under monsters IF you are going by the Giant List of Answered Questions on the FFG forums,

I can find no such answer in that thread. (Only occurrence of the word "chest" is on page 3 in a discussion about Tahlia.) Sure you're remembering correctly?

AllStations wrote:
Does anyone know about the grapple through doors?

I am unable to find a specific rule saying you can't, but I would be amazed if anyone allowed that in their games.

My group plays that both doors and walls block all effects, though the rules only clearly say that doors block movement, attacks, and line-of-sight, and don't actually say anything about what walls do or do not block.
 
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Doug File
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I think he is referring to this (from page 1 of the GLoAQ):

Quote:
Acrobat
A) Can a Hero with Acrobat activate Glyphs, or take treasures (gold, keys) from under a creature that is occupying the same square as the item.
B) Can a Hero with Acrobat open a door in which both spaces in front of the door are occupied by creatures, as long as he does not end his turn in one of those spaces?

A) Yes and B) yes and b1) yes. If this causes a hero to become paralyzed or something due to a trap, simply have the Overlord move the hero to the nearest empty space of the overlord's choice.

However, this does not mention chests, and since it does not contradict the specific rule from p18 of the rulebook, I would be inclined to say that rule stands - i.e. You cannot open the chest if another figure is standing on it, even if you have Acrobat.

 
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Proto Persona
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dfiler76 wrote:

I think he is referring to this (from page 1 of the GLoAQ):

Quote:
Acrobat
A) Can a Hero with Acrobat activate Glyphs, or take treasures (gold, keys) from under a creature that is occupying the same square as the item.
B) Can a Hero with Acrobat open a door in which both spaces in front of the door are occupied by creatures, as long as he does not end his turn in one of those spaces?

A) Yes and B) yes and b1) yes. If this causes a hero to become paralyzed or something due to a trap, simply have the Overlord move the hero to the nearest empty space of the overlord's choice.

However, this does not mention chests, and since it does not contradict the specific rule from p18 of the rulebook, I would be inclined to say that rule stands - i.e. You cannot open the chest if another figure is standing on it, even if you have Acrobat.


See, I'm inclined the opposite way. Everything listed in that answer is a movement action, same as opening a chest. So to me the precedent is set to allow the chest to be opened by an acrobat even if an enemy figure is there. Acrobat breaks the base rules in ways they did not outline in the rules.
 
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Proto Persona
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AllStations wrote:
Thanks for the quick replies guys. I think that covers my questions.

Does anyone know about the grapple through doors?


JitD Book page 13

"Closed doors block movement, line of sight, and all
attacks (even those that don’t require line of sight)
."

Bold is my doing. To me it depends on if you label Grapple as an attack. I think that Doors were intended to block everything. So no Grapple for you!. ^_^
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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Proto Persona wrote:
See, I'm inclined the opposite way. Everything listed in that answer is a movement action, same as opening a chest. So to me the precedent is set to allow the chest to be opened by an acrobat even if an enemy figure is there.

But none of the examples listed there have an existing rule that says you can't do it while another figure is in the square. Those are all things that a hero without acrobat could do while in the same square as another hero, so a hero with acrobat can do them in the same square as a monster.

There is no reason to think that Acrobat would give out weird powers to do things in the same space as a monster that you couldn't do in the same space as a hero. Neither the card, not the rulebook, nor the FAQ, nor the GLoAQ say anything of the kind, as far as I can tell. The card even goes out of it's way to say that you can't do several things in the same space as a monster (attack, end your movement) that your normally can't do while in the same space as a hero, establishing a precedent against opening chests.

Every possible indicator I can identify is against being able to open chests from underneath a monster.

Proto Persona wrote:
JitD Book page 13

"Closed doors block movement, line of sight, and all
attacks (even those that don’t require line of sight)
."

Bold is my doing. To me it depends on if you label Grapple as an attack. I think that Doors were intended to block everything. So no Grapple for you!. ^_^

Grapple is definitely not an attack. Attacks are things that follow the attack sequence rules and roll dice and inflict damage and such. Grapple is a special ability that takes effect primarily when it isn't even your turn. It doesn't need surges to overcome Fear, it can't be dodged, etc.

As I already said, I play that doors block everything and I'd be amazed if anyone let you Grapple through a closed door. But the answers you gave here are contradictory; if Grapple being blocked is dependent on it being an attack, then Grapple is definitely NOT blocked.
 
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Proto Persona
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Antistone wrote:
Proto Persona wrote:
See, I'm inclined the opposite way. Everything listed in that answer is a movement action, same as opening a chest. So to me the precedent is set to allow the chest to be opened by an acrobat even if an enemy figure is there.

But none of the examples listed there have an existing rule that says you can't do it while another figure is in the square. Those are all things that a hero without acrobat could do while in the same square as another hero, so a hero with acrobat can do them in the same square as a monster.

There is no reason to think that Acrobat would give out weird powers to do things in the same space as a monster that you couldn't do in the same space as a hero. Neither the card, not the rulebook, nor the FAQ, nor the GLoAQ say anything of the kind, as far as I can tell. The card even goes out of it's way to say that you can't do several things in the same space as a monster (attack, end your movement) that your normally can't do while in the same space as a hero, establishing a precedent against opening chests.

Every possible indicator I can identify is against being able to open chests from underneath a monster.

EDIT: Well never mind, I found the entry about not opening a chest in the same space as a figure. Guess I'm wrong on this one, Anti has the right idea here. Ignore my ramblings below. -_-
I'm not going to change your mind Anti, I know that from reading your posts on the FFG forums. I didn't find any rules concerning doing things in the same space as another figure, except for attacks. Friendly or hostile, the rules don't really cover what to do if you are taking an action in the same space as another figure. Since this was left up to our judgment, I decided to interpret it this way for those reasons. There really aren't any clear cut rules to back up either of our points, only our inferences of the rules.

Antistone wrote:
Proto Persona wrote:
JitD Book page 13

"Closed doors block movement, line of sight, and all
attacks (even those that don’t require line of sight)
."

Bold is my doing. To me it depends on if you label Grapple as an attack. I think that Doors were intended to block everything. So no Grapple for you!. ^_^

Grapple is definitely not an attack. Attacks are things that follow the attack sequence rules and roll dice and inflict damage and such. Grapple is a special ability that takes effect primarily when it isn't even your turn. It doesn't need surges to overcome Fear, it can't be dodged, etc.

As I already said, I play that doors block everything and I'd be amazed if anyone let you Grapple through a closed door. But the answers you gave here are contradictory; if Grapple being blocked is dependent on it being an attack, then Grapple is definitely NOT blocked.

I could have worded this better. I was not trying to say Grapple was an attack. I am saying that my interpretation of the rules is that it was intended that nothing goes through a door, period. There is no official ruling I can find on this one way or the other. So I guess we are in agreement, even if my writing sucks. ^_^
 
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