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Subject: Is Halfling too powerful? rss

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Jared Roswurm
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I played my first game with a friend and I happened to draw the Halfling Druid, my friend picked the Dwarf Scout. He saw the ability of the Halfling and said no fair that ability to WAY too powerful (Luck). In a battle 1's become 8's. He said that the Halflings ability should be weakened to come anywhere as close to the other race abilities. On the fifth turn after winning a couple battles I bought the concentration ability from the Fortress space, which allowed me to roll 3 times and pick the best result. So basically during my 3 rolls for a magic I could upgrade any of my 1's to 8's. My friend said the expansion is broke and said I quit, I have no chance of winning. He had a rare item sword, I had no items, and neither of us had any artifacts yet. This seemed like a crappy way to end a game for something of have been waiting to play for so long and now this friend refuses to play the game with the Halfling as an option. What do you guys think, if he being a bad sport (I think so) especially since it was only the 5th turn of the game, but maybe the Halfling has too many overpower possibilities. Any suggestions on how to tweak it's race card to a more level playing field?
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Chris Ferejohn
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Whether or not the halfling is broken, your friend is being a bad sport and a jerk. Seriously, this is a kill things and take their stuff game. It's *supposed* to have a good dose of luck in it. If you had played it a couple times and the halfling kept running away with it, fine you could talk about banning it but to nix it at the beginning of a game and go into a pout about it is absurd.
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Scott Roberts
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undinefuerte wrote:
I played my first game with a friend and I happened to draw the Halfling Druid, my friend picked the Dwarf Scout. He saw the ability of the Halfling and said no fair that ability to WAY too powerful (Luck). In a battle 1's become 8's. He said that the Halflings ability should be weakened to come anywhere as close to the other race abilities. On the fifth turn after winning a couple battles I bought the concentration ability from the Fortress space, which allowed me to roll 3 times and pick the best result. So basically during my 3 rolls for a magic I could upgrade any of my 1's to 8's. My friend said the expansion is broke and said I quit, I have no chance of winning. He had a rare item sword, I had no items, and neither of us had any artifacts yet. This seemed like a crappy way to end a game for something of have been waiting to play for so long and now this friend refuses to play the game with the Halfling as an option. What do you guys think, if he being a bad sport (I think so) especially since it was only the 5th turn of the game, but maybe the Halfling has too many overpower possibilities. Any suggestions on how to tweak it's race card to a more level playing field?

Too bad he was a bad sport. If he is the only guy you have to play with, don't use the halfling or let him have it. Plenty of people have won Talisman even though playing against a player with the Prophetess. I don't think that the halfling rises to that level of strength.
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Mont A.
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This raises an issue which came up in our first game with the expansion: can Concentration be used to select a "1" if playing as a Halfling? And if playing Curse against a Halfling, can the Halfling claim a "1" as his 'worst' roll?

We decided, if I recall, that in all such cases, the Halfling could not select a "1". So if he has Concentration and rolls a "1", "2", and "4", he has to select the "4" as his roll. Similarly, if a Cursed Halfling rolls a "1", "2', and "4", he has to take the "2" as his roll.

Not saying it's logically consistent. But it seemed somehow the fair thing to do.

I would love to see an official ruling on this however.
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Jared Roswurm
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I appreciate the moral support. Also I think the rules you suggested sound like a good idea. Thanks
 
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Vlaada Chvatil
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Please lets compare elf and halfling (on example of a 4 str 4 wp character), as these races are in some ways similar:

Elf has Str 4, WP 5. He has also two advantages in forest, and one slight disadvantage (dies at 0 hitpoints).

Halfling has Str 3, WP 4. However, he has a special dice with values 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8. Thus, in combat it is like he has Str 4, WP 5, and dice with values 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7. He has one advantage (throwing) and one disadvantage (long weapons).

Thus: in combat, halfling is like an elf, except when gets +1 when he rolls a 6. This advantage rises when he uses Concentration or Prayer, and is reduced when opponent curses him.

Halfling values are lower, thus it is more difficult to use some cards that require minimum of some value, but it is easier for him to use Gold Fish. Halfling has fewer hitpoints and dies sooner (which in fact exactly equals the only elf's disadvantage), and he can get out of mana more easily, thus healing and mana restoring cards are slighlty weaker for him, but he benefits more probably from Charity.

Etc. There are both advantages and disadvantages of having lower stats.

Thus when comparing an Elf and a Halfling:

In combat, they have the same values in fact. Halfling has +1 when he rolls 6 (impact of which can be increased by proper skills). Elf has two advantages in forest (which can be also improved by some items and skills that makes him to spend more time in forest - like forest trails).
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Mont A.
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Vlaada, thank you for clarifying, and sharing your thoughts on the characters! It is always a pleasure to read a game designer's own thoughts on his own game -- particularly when the game (Prophecy) is one of my all-time favorites. kiss

Your logic is compelling, and I can see now that the Halfling is not as powerful as I originally thought.

I am still unsure, however, how the Halfling's ability interacts with the Concentration/Prayer and Curse abilities.

For example, if a Halfling uses Concentration or Prayer, and rolls "1", "2", and "4", can he choose to take the "1" as his roll (effectively giving him an "8")? -- or is he forced to take the "4", since that is the highest number actually rolled?

Similarly, if an opponent uses Curse against a Halfling, and the Halfling rolls "1", "2", and "4", can the Halfling claim the "1" as his roll (since that was the lowest number), effectively giving him an "8"? -- or can the opponent who played Curse force the Halfling to accept "2" as his roll?
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Vlaada Chvatil
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Halfling chooses his best or worst result. 1 is considered the best result. Thus 1, 2. 4 with Concentration gives 1 (8), with Curse 2 (2).

As I have said, the Halfling luck ability (in fact +1.1666 to his combat roll average) is strenghtened by Prayer or Concentration.
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Mont A.
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Vlaada wrote:
Halfling chooses his best or worst result. 1 is considered the best result. Thus 1, 2. 4 with Concentration gives 1 (8), with Curse 2 (2).

As I have said, the Halfling luck ability (in fact +1.1666 to his combat roll average) is strenghtened by Prayer or Concentration.


I understand fully now. Many thanks for the clarification! meeple
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