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Subject: Yet another Catholic sex abuse. rss

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http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/lawyer-115-vic...

My rhetorical question is: Can it be that the belief in supernatural beings lends excessive authority to people assumed to be closer to those beings, making it easier for them to force themselves on children without getting caught?

Or is sexual child abuse just as common in non-religious settings, like scout camps, sports clubs and public kindergartens?
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Mondainai wrote:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/lawyer-115-vic...

My rhetorical question is: Can it be that the belief in supernatural beings lends excessive authority to people assumed to be closer to those beings, making it easier for them to force themselves on children without getting caught?

Or is sexual child abuse just as common in non-religious settings, like scout camps, sports clubs and public kindergartens?



I suspect it is just as common it just isn't as salacious so it doesn't get the news coverage.

A young boy I knew was molested by the guy on the corner when I was in my teens. Turns out he has been accused of doing similar things before in another place he lived and had molested several boys in our neighborhood. Never made the paper. Which was good for the kids. And since there were no deep pockets to get money from there was no civil law proceedings... just the criminal ones which were hard to make stick. Thus he just ended up harassed and moved out of the area... to a new hunting ground I suspect.
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Meerkat wrote:
A young boy I knew was molested by the guy on the corner when I was in my teens.
Good for him that pedophile didn't have God on his side.
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Mondainai wrote:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/lawyer-115-vic...

My rhetorical question is: Can it be that the belief in supernatural beings lends excessive authority to people assumed to be closer to those beings, making it easier for them to force themselves on children without getting caught?

Or is sexual child abuse just as common in non-religious settings, like scout camps, sports clubs and public kindergartens?


Church, deffo.

That celibacy thing (compounded by sexual naiveté) really screws some of 'em up in the long run.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Mondainai wrote:
Good for him that pedophile didn't have God on his side.
What nonsense is this? Was the thread taking a turn for territory you were uncomfortable with?
I mean that it's very fortunate that that pedophile did not have any divine authority that could make him make the boy blame himself and not tell anyone.
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
Let me just point out before I go, when a cop (also an authority figure) commits a crime (and I can point to regional cases of cops committing sex crimes) everyone bends over backward to point out that it was a rogue cop, not a department problem.
No department problem in the Catholic church then? Cops have authority, teachers as well, not to mention parents. Priests have excessive authority as they represent the mightiest thing ever imaginable. Being the medium between you and God is an extremely powerful tool, a weapon if you wish, and like we do for other such tools, we should closely scrutinize who gets to handle it. And ask ourselves why we need this tool in the first place.

When this divine authority is coupled with us trusting them to care for our kids, and us demanding them to not marry and get sexually pleased the normal adult way, then we get a "department problem". And we have probably had it since medieval times, and I am very concerned with all those children. You think I exploit these children to air my feelings for the Catholic church. You don't think the fate of these children and similar abuse might have anything to do with my feelings for the Catholic church in the first place?

Anyway, to be fair, I think celibacy has more to do with it than Divine Authority though. Comparing searches on "protestant sex abuse cases" with "catholic sex abuse cases" reveals only a handful of protestant rapes compared to thousands of catholic rapes - spread across the whole Catholic world.

What can possibly explain the difference? Here are some spontaneous ideas, that might or might not hold any merit:

1) Faith level - Protestant countries are less religious = kids are less scared of God = less scared to tell on God's representative = no pedophilia culture possible

2) Govt scrutiny - Protestant churches (in Europe at least) have been effectively owned by the government, and their servants thus monitored with the same scrutiny as other servants, and there has been less incentives for the highest authorities to keep things secret, as the highest authorities have not been the churches themselves but the secular government = no pedophilia culture possible

3) Welfare systems - Protestant countries have to a higher degree not left schooling, caring of orphans etc, in the hands of the churches, and institutional pedophilia in Protestant countries have thus been confined to secular institutions/schools/orphanages (from which we know a lot of abuse that have indeed gained media coverage).

4) Celibacy - Catholic priests are denied a sex life, and this is against most of them's nature, and children in their divine dependency have been easier and safer targets than fellow priests, nuns or prostitutes.

Now, I find 4) the most likely cause. While 3) looks like an explanation in Europe (with protestant countries having less church in the charity sector), only 4) could explain the difference between Protestants and Catholics in the United States.

So, why is it that we demand celibacy from our Catholic priests? Does it say so in the bible? Would you be ok with your Catholic priest (if you have one) having a wife to play with when they're both in the mood?
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Koldfoot wrote:
So the point was to bash the church, and spout nonsense about pedophilia being a religious institution.


I don't know about bashing, but I'm pretty sure pedophillia is a religious institution.

At least, for once, when Word of God and Laws of Men collides, human are intelligent enough to say that divine power or not, God is evil and those following his will have to be put on trials.
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
As a human being, I have more pity for the victims than I have desire to engage your hallucination that the Catholic Church encourages child rape.
In my hallucinations, I don't hear the pope say "rape kids, God likes it". But I don't hear him say "I'm sorry for what the church have done to you" either. And in effect, the catholic church has facilitated child rape by locking up kids with sexually frustrated men of divine status, and by not taking enough measures to deal with the horrible consequences as they became known. If that was to protect the church's good reputation, or that this was a convenient arrangement to deal with the situation, one cannot know. If it was just one-two-three-five-ten isolated cases, then we could speak of "bad apples". But we see these stories surface in the whole Catholic world, so something is deeply rotten in the whole catholic church, and I wouldn't like to put a cent in that offertory until a proper all-cards-on-the-table purge and analysis of the causes had been carried out. Guess I would change God delivery service just to be on the safe side.

Thanks for the history lesson though! But what was the official reason? Did that medieval pope say: "We need your inheritance" or did they make up some theological argument for the celibacy?
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Mondainai wrote:
Or is sexual child abuse just as common in non-religious settings, like scout camps, sports clubs and public kindergartens?


Sexual abuse is about power, not sex. So people who are abusers tend to be pretty good at getting into positions with authority over children. Religion's got nothing to do with it.
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perfalbion wrote:
Mondainai wrote:
Or is sexual child abuse just as common in non-religious settings, like scout camps, sports clubs and public kindergartens?


Sexual abuse is about power, not sex. So people who are abusers tend to be pretty good at getting into positions with authority over children. Religion's got nothing to do with it.

True enough. But what is particularly creepy is the religious power in place consistently trying to cover things up.
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J, I disagree with you.

Child abuse was a 'shit happens' for a lot of children at a lot of people (including sometime the victim's parents) made a lot of covering up.

Problem is the following :

As a ... let's say ... mechanics, I work repairing car and during my spare time, I have sexual fun with my pre-teen nephew.
My brother when discovering what I do with his son, instead of protecting me, denounce me and I got to jail.
After purging my sentence in jail, I'll will be able to have my job back.
Of course, my nephew will be traumatized and will probably hate me ... but it won't prevent them to buy a car when they will be grown-up and to ask a mechanics to repair it when needed.

They will think 'My uncle is a bastard', not 'Mechanics are bastards'.



Almost the same happens if I'm a teacher that give to some treteen students extra points if they do me some favors ... or let's say if I do them.
Again, I get caught red handed by parents, go to jail and out ... I won't be able to become a teacher ever : because if i'm a pedo, law MUST forbid me to work with child.
If a governement allowed me to get back my job people would think : 'The governement thinks that pedophillia is not a bad thing and don't care about children'.
Of course in that case it would have been better if governement prevent me for becoming a teacher in the first place ... but a governement isn't omniscient nor omnipotent ....



Which bring back to church. I don't care about pope, I don't like to talk to insignificant and possibly fraud subaltern when I can talk to the boss in person.
Each church will say that their god is the bestest of the bestest and that priests represent their will.
So when a cleric rape a preteen, it means one thing : God allow this.
Covering up the rapist is God's will : the rapist must be protected, because god allowed him to do what he did.

Contrary to the two previous example, God is perfectly aware of what happen and agree...

Which could mean 2 things :

1) God is evil, as his church and religion should be declared illegal
2) God doesn't exist, religions are frauds and therefore should be declared illegal

And some want us to think that religion is a good thing !!!!

Conclusion :

Beware, when you belive in religion, you are f***ed up, and if you are under 14, this expression can be litterale.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Mondainai wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Mondainai wrote:
Good for him that pedophile didn't have God on his side.
What nonsense is this? Was the thread taking a turn for territory you were uncomfortable with?
I mean that it's very fortunate that that pedophile did not have any divine authority that could make him make the boy blame himself and not tell anyone.
So the point was to bash the church, and spout nonsense about pedophilia being a religious institution.

I had assumed the OP was posted because you had some sympathy to the victims and wanted the discussion to go that direction. Instead it seems you wish to propagate your hatred of the Church.

I'll bow out of the conversation. Far be it from me to be a thread hijacker.

Let me just point out before I go, when a cop (also an authority figure) commits a crime (and I can point to regional cases of cops committing sex crimes) everyone bends over backward to point out that it was a rogue cop, not a department problem. Only a few unbalanced people try to link the crime to the profession.

In the case of the Catholic Church, I would entertain the notion that there is a larger problem, IF A RATIONAL CASE WAS MADE, instead of hate filled innuendo.

For example: note this comment above:

Church, deffo.

That celibacy thing (compounded by sexual naiveté) really screws some of 'em up in the long run.


Short on words. Long on "rational case".


Err... I think things are a bit different in the catholic church.
After all, when I went to google it, "how many catholic priests have molested children" was one of the top 10 prepared queries that autoprompted.

One quote..
'The problem is not just with the fraction of priests who molests youngsters, but in an ecclesiastical power structure which harbours pedophiles, conceals other sexual behaviour patterns among its clerics and uses the strategies of duplicity and counterattack against the victims.'- Joughin, M. 'Church response to the sex abuse priest', In Fidelity, No.8. September 1995, p. 1.

Per the wiki
In 2002, the John Jay report tabulated a total of 4392 priests and deacons in the U.S. against whom allegations of sexual abuse were considered by their diocese to have been "substantiated.

FOUR THOUSAND, THREE HUNDRED, and 92. Whoa. Substantiated allegations of abuse. And dollars to donuts, many cases did not involve just one under age boy.

And the catholic church covered for them... for years.

Looks like Methodists had an issue too.

---

Basic problem, deny a man sex for years, put him alone with anyone over a long period of time. My girlfriends church deacon fell into an affair with the church secretary over bible study. Billy Graham had it right. You just don't spend time alone unless it is your spouse.


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The Catholic church is in dire need of a few monastic orders of naughty nuns, that regular priests can visit for spiritual exercises
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One of the reason there is a kneejerk reaction regarding the Catholic church is because the president of the Catholic League thinks it is no big deal

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Quote:
Overall, and with the emphasis on NOW, I would answer the OP by saying Catholics specifically and religion overall is no more prone to sexual abuse than other areas.


This.

Some of the responses in this thread demonstrate the fear/hate of religion more than they prove anything about sexual abuse in religion. Do you people even understand there is no standardized definition of what sexual abuse of a minor is? Not to mention that it has repeatedly been proven that children often will say whatever it is that they perceive adults want to hear?

Have priests abused altar boys? Certainly. Does that have anything to do with religion? Nope. Does an uncle who sexually abuses a niece or nephew demonstrate that uncles are a danger to society?

In some jurisdictions the act of masturbating while thinking about a person under the age of consent is considered pedophilia. And how many families routinely cover up and hide incest or sexual abuse of one form or the other? Certainly that is more prevalent than the Catholic Church's cover-ups.

Plus, the idea that priests are more prone to abusing children than other men because they "don't get laid" is just plain stupid. There are plenty of men who don't get laid and also aren't priests... in fact, I'd bet there are millions upon millions more men who don't get laid than there are priests. Do you hate them as well?

This whole subject is over-blown. And yes, I do believe it's right and proper to force the Catholic Church to clean up their act and establish a set of guidelines to reduce the potential of abuse. At the same time it's equally important to keep teachers, uncles, drivers of vans, Boy Scout Troop leaders, martial arts instructors and pretty much any adult in a position of authority from abusing children.

There is no culture on Earth where young, attractive males and females aren't objects of erotic attention and I don't see that changing anytime soon. The "problem" isn't religion, the problem is that young males and females are sexually attractive and some men (and women) don't have the self-discipline to follow the societal rules and keep their mitts of the young ones.
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I am nominally Catholic but I don't excuse the coverup by the Church and the tendency for the Church to move these priests around. However, I think alot of these stories to get blown out of proportion because it provides yet another opportunity to play smash the Catholics. Maybe Catholics should start slamming planes into buildings so they become a protected religion.
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Several of you have brought up Celibacy as a causative agent, which I just don't think is accurate.

I think it is more of an "attractant" than a cause in the Catholic church.

My two thoughts on this and the reasons behind it.

1) I think... right or wrong it is possible that some people seek the Priesthood as a path for enforced self control and then fail. They have urges that they know are wrong. Like an urge to have sex with children and hope that by dedicating themselves to God and a life of total denial they can control those urges.

Celibacy is not the cause in these cases... many child molesters are married men who have normal sex lives with their wives. So sexual release doesn't stop them.

2) The few but real people who know early on that they have socially unacceptable desires and want power and access to young boys might chose the "church" as a vocation to obtain that power.

As Ken already pointed out people with needs for power and access to sexually abuse people gravitate to where they can find it.

But contrary to what has been put forth in this thread... up until about 25 years ago or so teachers/police etc where JUST as powerful as priests when it came to "cover up" authority. Doctors have even greater leeway and power since they are "allowed" to have access to your body others don't. I know a man who as a young teen boy had a spend a few months in rehab who ended up abused and confused about it. That also never got prosecuted nor the doctor even confronted by the parents since the teen covered it up for years.

That man who abused the young boy I mentioned.... he didn't even have any authority and he still was able to scare the boy into keeping it a secret for a few weeks. His mother who had been a victim of a couple of molesters in her youth (non religious figures) however had told all her children several times that no matter what other people told them, they could say no to people touching their private places and they could always tell her anything and she would never be mad at them for telling. So after the 2nd or 3rd time or so... the boy felt he could tell his mother matter what that man had been doing and what he had said. So he ended up not to terribly traumatized.

I suppose threatening divine retribution in some way might be scarier... but the people I know who were abused as children and never told say that mostly what worked on them was they were told that if they ever told that nobody would believe them over an adult... and if somebody did find out it was true that then their parents wouldn't love them anymore and would be ashamed of them and wouldn't want them to be their children anymore. A much more terrifying threat to a child than some religious threat I would think.

So molesters don't need the power of a church to be molesters and scare kids into silence. However the church is a source of power with access to kids. So it would be an attractant to molesters. Just like being a teacher would. But even better because Priests get more one on one time with young boys specifically than teachers.

I cannot say if those kids end up more screwed up or not though... because of the several people I personally *KNOW* first hand who were molested and/or raped none of them were molested/raped by people with any religious authority. It has always been people in other positions of power or relationship. In spite of my many years of being involved with several churches AND having attended Catholic school.

So again... I think the Catholic church makes more press. They should not have covered it up. However sexual abuse being made and dealt with in public really is a "new" thing. And I suspect the "church" has been dealing with isolated cases of this for many hundreds of years because of the "power" aspect. And a hundred years ago you just didn't talk about stuff like this openly. You handled it behind closed doors. Not just the church... everybody did.



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Mondainai wrote:


Or is sexual child abuse just as common in non-religious settings, like scout camps, sports clubs and public kindergartens?


As a martial arts instructor, I am CONSTANTLY forwarded stories about martial arts sexual abuse.

It is a FARRRRRRRR bigger problem in MA than the church. I suspect its a power thing. Sensei so and so wants you to get your next belt, but yoi'll get a private test for it...

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As, a Catholic myself, I have to say: Bow-chicka-wow-wow.
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Koldfoot wrote:
.... Only a few unbalanced people try to link the crime to the profession....

I'm beginning to understand your posts on power relationships Koldfoot.

I live in a world where there is clear evidence and a very strong case that social relationships are linked very strongly - cause and effect as far as that can be shown in human actions - to unlawful actions. See prison guards and prisoners, Milgram_experiment etc etc.

If you've got a profession then you've got clients. And when the power imbalance is great then, unless you've got lots of checks and balances in place, shit will go down. And it won't be the powerful who often fucked over. If those checks and balances are insufficient then linking abuse to the profession is accurate and useful.

That's my world anyway.
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Geosphere wrote:


It is a FARRRRRRRR bigger problem in MA than the church. I suspect its a power thing. Sensei so and so wants you to get your next belt, but yoi'll get a private test for it...


Shit.(Edit: as in Damn, Heck etc) I'd never even imagined this happening but now ....
And given the number of MA paedophile convictions that make to the newspaper I get worried about just how open kids are with their parents about whats been happening in their trousers. And that openness seems the only real defense against this shit.
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Meerkat wrote:
..isolated cases ...

I see no reason, logic or evidence for this.

I agree with and appreciate most of the rest of your post.
 
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(Note: Very long post and I, sadly, have not read much of the posts above mine. I will, more than likely be, in part, repeating portions spoken by others and this message is meant to acknowledge, first and foremost, that there are other bright people on this forum who will have guess or speculated a good portion of what I have written here. I will now go through all of the previous posts to my own and thumb any well-written post by a person who already said something I said here. They deserve at least some small recognition.)

I have a theory for why the catholic church, throughout history, has had an over representation of homosexual members, many of which experimented with, or even outright abused, young males. I ran my theory by two different history professors and a sociology professor and all three have had reactions ranging from "seems reasonably plausible" to "yeah, that's pretty much what happened."

My theory is the social and personal repression of homosexuality and the ability to find acceptable outlets within society. Imagine it's the middle ages, you're a lord with a manor and fiefdom, perhaps large, but probably small. As a lord, you are expected to be fertile. To have and raise children, an heir in particular. So, that's what you do. Your children are born and you raise them. Then, your male children become old enough that it's time for them to get married and start working on that whole "heir" business, but that's when you discover (or perhaps simply suspect) that one of your children is entirely unattracted to women. This is unacceptable! He is expected (not just by you, but by the whole of society) to not only reproduce, but sire an heir (and probably many bastards on the side).

So, what do you do about it? Well, you can't just let it be known that he's a sodomite. It would reflect poorly upon your entire family. So, you survey your options. The first is to pretend it doesn't exist and hope for the best. This worked on occasion. Social pressures could make your son accept his marriage and to try (and hopefully succeed) to sire children of their own. They might hold male lovers on the side, but you often wouldn't know about it since societal pressures would force them to keep it a secret.

The other option is to send them to the church. Perhaps you'd do it because you honestly believe that being closer to god would make him less sinful. Or, just as likely, you'd have the very pragmatic view of "at least if he's sworn to celibacy he won't be expected to sire any children" thus protecting your family reputation.

Since seminaries didn't exist during this time and most members were sent to the church rather than choosing to do so on their own, the "perk" of expected celibacy was a natural draw for anxious noble progenitors . Of course, many were also sent who were not at all homosexual but were simply not the child the lord wished to inherit his lands, and these members often kept mistresses, especially in the higher positions of the church hierarchy.

Alright, so now imagine that your given son is what you thought he was and he attempts to suppress his desires while in the Church. Church officials, not necessarily aware of his desires, place him in a standard position of authority within an abbey or similar position with duties to lead a flock of the faithful. In this time, if he is in a position where he is in close proximity to other members of the church regularly he may find, or even seek out, another member with similar inclinations with whom to "become close." This happened quite regularly. However, if he were assigned to a location where he is not in the presence of other church members, but rather the leader of a single congregation, that would not be an option. In locations where there was only one church member to maintain the church grounds, the peasantry were usually expected to pay their tithe duties with labor. Most commonly this meant working the church lands like they did for the manor lord's demesne or to help maintain the actual building. Young boys were not exempted from these duties, but were often instead assigned to help the priest in menial and minor administrative tasks. Young girls were not allowed to perform these duties, ironically, because it was felt that their presence might be too much of a temptation for the celibate priest. This is the origin of "altar boys" as a church position. So, here we have a priest who is possibly homosexual and his only 'alone time' with any other males happen to be his alter boy assistants. It's not a huge leap to see where this would eventually lead him.

Now, just for the sake of acknowledging probability here, let's say a higher church official finds out about your priest-son's transgressions. This puts that official in a rather awkward position. The Church was the physical manifestation of God's authority on Earth. For the Church to change their ways they must, in some small way, admit that the previous way was not entirely correct or perfect. Religious institutions, by their very nature, loathe to do this. The Pope speaks with God's voice and his subordinates speak with the Pope's voice. By proxy, every priest within the church is meant to be inerrant in the same way as the Pope. The Church, until well after the reformation was, and to a certain extent still is, very sensitive to the possibility of heresy among its followers and letting it be known publicly that one of their members was acting in a very "impious" manner would clearly foster doubt about, at the very least, the Church's recruiting practices. Thus, like most other scandals, the Church needed to cover up the acts. Of course, they would need to discipline the offending priest, but they couldn't do it in a way which would add doubt in the minds of its followers, so they settled upon their favorite form of punishment for the next ~1,000 years, reassignment. This, of course, did little to discourage the behavior itself. It simply hid the behavior while they waited patiently for the offending priest to expire naturally, hopefully taking the embarrassment with him.

So it went on in this way for centuries until the reformation in the 16th century. From this came Seminaries, which actually had the primary goal of training priests to be able to argue theologically and to (again, ironically) discourage the seeking of female "companionship" once they're assigned to a position where they wouldn't be given as much supervision. It must be said that for those two purposes it actually worked fairly well, however (there's always a however, isn't there?) it also had the effect of combining the homosexual population of their new members into one place and made it far more likely that they would then secretly experiment with each other. Also, with the ending of the practice of selling church positions, far more non-noble priests were accepted into the Church. Most of this new blood came from two backgrounds. They were either the sons of the burgher and merchant middle class who often shared similar social practices with the nobility or they were peasants who had had extensive experience with the Church previously... Most often as Alter Boys.

Now, I will not argue that being abused causes you to be an abuser, per se`. The difference between then and now is culture and its sources. For a priest to have a long running 'relationship' with one or more of his altar boys, it is possible for him to have gained their 'consent' through manipulation or coercion. Given this behavior long enough without direct contradiction from another source, the boy in question may become used to the idea that this behavior is common or acceptable. Thus, when they now join the Church (this having been made more probable by the reformation) it is possible that they will eventually use the same sexual outlets their "mentor" did. Spending much of their late teen and early adult age in seminary with its focus on camaraderie and the ability to spend much "alone time" with other members may have also increased their willingness to "experiment" as well.

Thus it continues on until present day. The only things that have really changed are public views towards child abuse and the increasing campaigns against it in schools and families. The church has been slow to adjust to this trend in that they have been continuing their practice of "move and hide" with their problem members. When the trend first began, the Pope even issued a Bull declaring excommunication for any priest or child who speaks out on the matter, in an attempt to reinforce its long standing doctrine of covering up such embarrassments. As said before, religious institutions, by their very nature, always attempt to reinforce previous decisions as correct rather than change them if they have the option. Given that they speak for God, I suppose it's actually rational for them to attempt to hold to previous traditions in the face of new situations, no matter how repugnant the tradition is, so long as it does not directly endanger the religion's survival. It could be argued that this practice in fact does directly threaten the Church's survival, however, I, and I suppose the Church hierarchy, do not believe so. Catholicism is still very strong in many regions around the world and without serious religious competition within those nations, even disillusioned Catholics will remain, in their Church's mind, nominally Catholic. The only places where the Church is actually threatened by this practice are places where they are relatively weak already, such as Europe and non-latin North America where there are sizable Protestant and secular populations present as alternatives to the Catholic Church. Best I can tell, the Church has weighed its options and decided that remaining consistent is currently less damaging to their membership in Europe and non-latin America than showing inconsistency (and openly admitting fault) would be to their membership in the rest of the world.

(Post script disclaimer: #1 Most priests are probably not homosexual. I simply theorize that the population of homosexual men is proportionally higher within the Church than in the general population. #2 Being homosexual does not mean being a pedophile. The post-Victorian concept of sexuality and homosexuality didn't exist back then. Being attracted to a gender wasn't nearly as tied to age back then and men, whom we would consider "heterosexual" today, could and often would sleep with anyone who appeared to have "feminine" features including very young women and even prepubescent boys. I leave open the possibility that many of the pederast priests were actually heterosexual, but considering the, in my opinion, plausibility of there being so many sexually repressed homosexuals without any adult men around, may eventually begin to loosen his standards to include lower ages and justify it by saying it's all that was available.)

((Edit: I wouldn't thumb this post if you're not prepared to agree with something that I have a feeling is going to be quite unpopular, btw.))
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lotus dweller
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Sounds plausible.
2 pedantic ?errors? TMK
The Pope does not usually speak with "infallibility".
It was a Letter sent by a Cardinal of gthe Holy Office, not a Bull, that threatened excommunication for victims that spilt the beans.
See my dummy spit at
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4593765
'crimen sollicitationis' (crime of solicitation) - perfect bastardry?


 
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hibikir wrote:
The Catholic church is in dire need of a few monastic orders of naughty nuns, that regular priests can visit for spiritual exercises
I also thought so at first, but then KF pointed out that historically, it's caring for the resulting children that is the problem as it puts a drain on the church's resources.

So, priest sex needs to be non-child-producing, or at least child-effective. So you couldn't have a priest:nun ratio at 1-1, while a priest : prostitute ratio at 10:1 would cut costs 90%, money that could be invested in doing God's will.

Contraceptives would have been an awesome solution. Problem is that it'd interfere with the theological underpinnings of the high child/mother ratio which makes the church grow faster than other churches.

I guess the best would have been for them to just let the priests have their married lives, like protestant priests. Maybe getting that inheritance money back by having the kids knit mats or something.

edit: formatting
 
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