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Last Night on Earth: Survival of the Fittest» Forums » Rules

Subject: Barbed Wire meets Meat Cleaver... Doh! rss

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Anders Kernel
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Howdy Ho dear Zombie Fans!

As would happen at some time Victor the Escaped and very irritating (From a pure Zombie perspective) Convict, has a great day bashing down Zs with his meat cleaver and a few extra dice. However, in comes the great, almost bloated Barbed Wire! They see each other and Victor yells a challenge, quickly responded by the Barbed Wires Howl of Agony and general bad breath... They run towards each other and clashes in the town Center, all are waiting to see the outcome when the Hero Player rolls: 1-1-4-6...

Wait a minute,I exclaimed when the Heroes were celebrating... What happens now? Barbed Wire says you Instantly Lose the fight, but Meat Cleaver says it is Instantly killed... Hmm... So which is it? Lose? Killed? or... Both?

Help!

Cheerio,
A
 
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Bruce Shackelford
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Both cards saying "instantly" does make it confusing but I'd have to think the Cleaver takes precedence.

If a Zombie is instantly Killed by the Meat Cleaver (or Garden Shears), that stops the fight itself; no other cards can be played (except a card that cancels an instant Kill). Otherwise, we'll go to a "fight resolution" step to see who has won; after that, Weapon effects, Hero effects and/or Hero or Zombie Fight cards can be played to roll more dice, change a die roll, etc.

At this point, Barbed Wire checks to see if the Hero rolled any 1s; if so, the fight instantly ends, and no cards or effects may change that, and the Hero loses.

That's how I'd rule during play, but it's not as cut-and-dried as I'd like; an official ruling would be nice.
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Dan H
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It's a quantum superposition of winning and losing. :-D

< /physics >

Two other ways you might consider resolving this sort of situation:

(1) Zombie player flips a coin, Hero player calls it in the air.

(2) Numerical superiority. There's 1 die in the Hero's favor, 2 dice in the Zombie's favor. Hence the Zombie wins.

I've felt recently that there are far too many worries on the LNoE boards about technicalities about turn order and when cards can be played and so on. Adopting a simple coin flip as a standing house rule to all rules disputes strikes me as a very simple and fair way to get a quick resolution.
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Guido Gloor
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Hm, what speaks against both? It's easily possible to for the survivor to die (and stop being a survivor at that point, but that's beside the issue) while slashing the zombie in half with the cleaver.
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Joshua Harris
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Agreed. I would say the zombie dies, hero takes a wound. Win Win.
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Jf Roustan
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I agree with : "Both".
Anyway, this is the way we play the meet cliver here. You can kill the zombie and take a bite... This has been seen.
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Jason Hill
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The intent is that all 'Instant' effects would resolve simultaniously. So in this case, the Hero would Kill the Zombie and the Hero would lose the Fight (and take a wound).

The reason that the fight does not normally Resolve with a Meat Cleaver 6 is that the Zombie is Instantly Killed before moving on, so there is no Zombie left to Resolve the Fight with.

- Jason
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Troy eland
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thanks jason!
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Anders Kernel
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Thank you Jason, that is what we ruled, but we werent sure about it...

Cheerio,
A
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Joe Davenport
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It's great to know that the developer of this game takes enough pride in their work to monitor this forum and help with logical answers. Props to Flying Frog!

Thanks Jason!
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Henrik Schmidt
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jchill7 wrote:

The intent is that all 'Instant' effects would resolve simultaniously. So in this case, the Hero would Kill the Zombie and the Hero would lose the Fight (and take a wound).

The reason that the fight does not normally Resolve with a Meat Cleaver 6 is that the Zombie is Instantly Killed before moving on, so there is no Zombie left to Resolve the Fight with.

- Jason


Does that mean that a fight is resolved if a hero with meat cleaver and a 6 is fighting a bloated zombie with a 6 who prevents the wound ? Hero wil take a wound and zombie is not killed ?
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Matthew Knutson
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LarkinVB wrote:

Does that mean that a fight is resolved if a hero with meat cleaver and a 6 is fighting a bloated zombie with a 6 who prevents the wound ? Hero wil take a wound and zombie is not killed ?


According to the "Rules Notes" on the back of the Growing Hunger rulebook

"Instantly Killed - When a model is 'instantly' Killed, it immediately fills all of its Health Boxes with wound markers. These wounds MAY be prevented as normal. If not, the model is removed and any Fight they were in is ended without being Resolved. If a weapon 'instantly' Kills on a certain roll during a Fight (Ex. On the roll of 6), the instant Kill must be worked out before any other fight cards are played to re-roll, add dice, or cancel the Fight, etc."

Interpreting the two sections of this, I take it to mean:

so an instant Kill that is not a result of a weapon rolling a specific number can be prevented through card play but only cards that prevent wounds because of the "These wounds MAY be prevented as normal" clause (hypothetically, if a zombie had a card to cancel a fight they could not at this time because it does not prevent wounds, however if they had a Just A Scratch equivalent they could play that and prevent the killing wound. I say killing wound because Just A Scratch prevents only one and a zombie hero instantly Killed would take all but one wound in this situation). Innate abilities also come into play (Eg. Bloated Body, Rachelle's Intuition, JoJo's Dancing, and "Let's Rock!" Heroic card)

Those weapons that "'instantly' Kill[s] on a certain roll during a Fight", Sledge Hammer on 4,5, or 6, Garden Shears and "Terrifying in the hands of Sally"-Meat Cleaver (I am biased) on 6, would only allow fight cards or innate abilities that prevent wounds (does fight mean 'Fight:' here, or merely cards that would be played in a fight, depending on the meaning does this then include "It's Stuck" or not - personally I believe that "It's Stuck" should be able to target a Meat Cleaver that has just rolled a six).

I believe the primary difference between Kill and instantly Killed is that Kill can be prevented by any means. That includes cards that cancel fights (not that zombie have these cards, just exploring the heart of the rule).

Looking through the zombie deck again... Unstoppable would be able to "prevent all wounds" from the Signal Flare even if the Signal Flare instantly Killed (it does not, it only Kills). But if the zombie's had a re-roll a ranged weapon roll since the signal flare only Kills they could play that according to the real wording of the Signal Flare card.

I would like to know if immediately Killed on p18 of LNOE's rule book in the box for Gas Markers is the same as instantly Killed. I am certain the automatic Kill on the chainsaw is not the same as instant Kill.

Also because of the wording of the Rules Note box on the back of LNOE:GH rulebook "the instant Kill must be worked out before any other fight cards are played to re-roll, add dice, or cancel the Fight, etc." I wonder whether or not the fight continues if the killing wound is prevented meaning fight cards could turn the battle around. Say Sally hits a zombie Hero with the Meat Cleaver, rolling a six, and filling all its health boxes, the zombie player plays the currently non-existent card (quite a feat in and of itself) Just a Scratch-zombie equivalent preventing that wound. It having thwarted the instant Kill plays Undead Hate the Living and Sally rolls less than the zombie, she explains to the zombie that she is lucky and so it re-rolls the dice she points out, unluckily for lucky Sally its new roll is functionally just as good as its previous roll in relation to her, then to add insult to injury the zombie player plays "It's Stuck" (Sally did technically use the hand weapon bonus the zombie just "didn't really care" that she did (I could be convinced otherwise)) and to top it off then plays the as of now non-existent Recovery-zombie equivalent. Sally's future looks pretty bleak from here, luckily she is lucky.

Note to Jason Hill and all involved with the making of LNOE:etc. I do not, by any means, suggest the creation of Recovery and Just a Scratch -zombie equivalents.


So to actually answer your question. The Hero would win, meaning thy would take no wound, the bloated body would also use its innate ability (just a clarification: "Let's Rock!" endows an innate ability) to possibly prevent that would. So depending on the Bloated Body's roll the fight plays out either like a fend off or a kill, it would be like the 2nd or 3rd possible outcomes of Resolving the Fight on page 15 LNOE rulebook.
 
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BT Pcola
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The way our group interprets it is...

Zombie fighting Rachelle and uses "Fighting Instincts" to get the Meat Cleaver

The zombie rolls a 6. Regardless of what Rachelle's roll is she instantly gets all of her health boxes filled.

We play that only the LAST wound is preventable. She can use Intuition or Just A Scratch to leave her last wound open so she's not killed, but she still has 2 wounds.

That fight is then resolved. "I Feel A Little Strange" should NOT be able to be played in the case of "Instant" kills.
 
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