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Subject: My son's big fat wedding part II rss

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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Awhile back I posted a thread about how my son and his girl friend eloped to Florida because her pastor wouldn't marry them in the church while they were living in sin. In essence, they got married so they could have a big church wedding in her big church. Anyway, I was bitching about being on the hook, with my ex-wife, for a rehearsal dinner for 50 people for a reinactment one year later. I thought it was silly. The crazy kids ran off to Florida and got married last June and didn't tell us until weeks and weeks later. (That pissed of my ex a bunch.) Anyway, the good geeks here convinced me to ignore the fact that they were already married accept the rehearsal dinner as formal bonding of the two families. Sooner or later they may become parents of my grand children and it would be nice to stay on their good side for the sake of the family.

Here is that original thread
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/482250/my-sons-big-fat-w...-

A reasonable and affordable rehearsal dinner solution has been discussed with my son. The former Mrs. Scrib and I are fine with that.

Anyway my ex and I get this email today

Quote:
SubjectFWD: The parents of the groom

Ty and I were trying to figure out how much you guys would like to contribute to the “traditional parents of the groom” financial responsibilities so we can better budget. Luckily we don’t need a marriage license or blood work since we eloped in FL, so don’t worry about those fees. Ty and I also discussed my disdain for boutonnières and corsages, so we will not having those at the wedding. The only thing left would be the rehearsal dinner, bride’s bouquet, transportation, officiant’s fees and the honeymoon.


I have my own opinions but rather than post them here first, I'm soliciting opinions from the Chit Chat crowd.
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Re: My son's big fat wedding wedding part II
Boutonnières are horrible. Too salty.
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JessA
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See? Aren't you lucky they already got married so you don't have to pay for their marriage license and blood work? Now, you just have to pay for their honeymoon!!!!


Good grief, what an annoying email!! Where is she getting this list of traditional parents of groom jobs???

Well, my opinion is that you pretend this email says;

Quote:
"We need to know how much you guys can contribute to the wedding so we can plan our budget. Thank you so much for all you do, we love you so much!"


and answer that one.
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Billy McBoatface
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With Jess 100%.

Your daughter in law has an incredibly annoying email personality. "Disdain"? I only use that word when I intend sarcasm.

PS - Don't tell her I said that. I don't want angry emails from some woman I've never met.
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JessA
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Okay, this is a really annoying post, but here are some articles about what the groom's parents should pay for. I don't see Honeymoon in any of these.

Quote:
=http://www.essortment.com/lifestyle/weddingetiquett_sjoy.htm... a traditional wedding, the groom’s family has their responsibilities too. The parents of the groom generally pay for their own formalwear, as well as the wedding clothes for the groom and best man. The groom’s family is also responsible for miscellaneous expenses such as the cost of the marriage license and any associated fees, the engagement party and rehearsal dinner.


Quote:
=http://wedding-traditions.suite101.com/article.cfm/bridal_pa...
Responsibilities of the Mother of the Groom

* Contact the bride’s parents as soon as the engagement is announced. Arrange to get together with them.
* Offer help with finding venues and vendors.
* Provide a guest list for the groom’s side of the family and friends, keeping the maximum number set by the bride’s family in mind.
* Attend bridal showers and bring gifts.
* Discuss wedding day dresses with the mother of the bride and find one that is appropriate.
* Help plan and host the rehearsal dinner.
* Join the mother of the bride and light the unity candle if that is part of the ceremony.
* Receive and greet guests at the reception.
* Dance with the groom after the bride and groom’s first dance.

Responsibilities of the Father of the Groom

* Get to know and establish a rapport with the bride’s parents.
* Offer financial assistance with the wedding drink tab.
* Wear the tuxedo or suit preferred by the groom.
* Work with the mother of the groom to plan and host the rehearsal dinner.
* Provide support when the groom needs it.
* Receive and greet guests at the reception.


Read more at Suite101: Traditional Bridal Party Responsibilities: Mother and Father of the Bride, Maid of Honor and Best Man Duties http://wedding-traditions.suite101.com/article.cfm/bridal_pa...


Quote:
http://www.wedthemes.com/wedding-responsibilities.shtmlThe Groom's Family

* Travelling expenses for themselves and the groom if needed
* Wedding present for the bride and groom (often a donation of money to help with expenses)
* Their own wedding clothes
* The rehearsal dinner (optional, as noted above)
* All beverages at reception (optional, as noted above)


Quote:
=http://ourmarriage.com/html/mother_of_the_groom.html
Responsibilities of the Mother of
the Groom

The mother of the groom is often at a loss as to exactly what role she plays in the marriage of her son. This is even more true when she has not participated previously in a wedding for a daughter or other sibling. The following rules of etiquette are shared to increase the joy and fulfil the traditional responsibilities of the mother of the groom.

Her responsibilities include:

* The first rule of etiquette to be followed upon receiving news of the impending nuptials is to initiate contact between the families. Introducing herself and her husband to the bride's parents is her first responsibility. This may be as simple as making a call to the bride's mother and telling her how happy she is about the engagement or an informal invitation to dinner at their home. If preferred, dinner at a nice restaurant is always in order. This may be with or without the couple in attendance.

If the parents live far away, a friendly letter is appropriate. A snapshot of the family and maybe even one of her son as a small child is always welcomed by the bride's mother and is a kind gesture.

* The importance of providing an accurate and timely guest list can neither be over emphasized, nor the importance of sticking to the guidelines given her as to the number of guests she many invite. Remember to include zip codes.
* It is the bride's mother who will first select a dress for her daughters wedding. A gown of complimentary color and similar styling is then chosen by the mother of the groom. She must wear long if the bride's mother wears long or short if she wears short. The color should not match the bridesmaids, nor the brides' mother, but compliment both.
* Reservations for out-of-town guests, invited by the groom's family, are the responsibility of the mother of the groom. It will be much more convenient if a block of rooms are reserved at a nearby hotel, which is near her home.
* It is the responsibility of the groom's parents to host the rehearsal dinner. This can be as simple as a salad potluck with paper plates in the backyard or as elaborate as an exotic dinner with live entertainment in the finest restaurant. Everyone who takes a part in the ceremony is invited to the dinner. It is proper etiquette to invite the spouse or significant other of those participating, and the parents of children in the wedding.
* Scheduled family photographs, prior to the wedding, will dictate the groom's parents time of arrival. If photos are not scheduled to be taken before the ceremony, the arrival should be no less than one hour before the appointed time
* As the wedding begins, the groom's mother will be escorted down the aisle, to the first pew, right-hand side, by the head usher or a groomsman who is a family member. A nice touch includes the groom escorting his mother down the aisle. As the groom's mother is escorted to her seat, her husband will follow along behind. However, if the parents are divorced, the father of the groom will have been seated previously, two pews behind the mother.
* The role as mother of the groom, in the ceremony, may include lighting the family candle on the altar, along with the mother of the bride. Family candles are lit after the candle lighters have left the altar area, and prior to the entrance of the wedding party.
* The first official duty of the mother of the groom, during the reception is to stand in the receiving line greeting guests and introducing her friends and family to the bride and her family. Traditionally she stands between the bride and her mother. If the fathers of the couple choose to stand in the line, she will stand between them.

* Be familiar with the responsibilities of the Maid of Honor. You may want to have a conversation with the Maid of Honor to coordinate and avoid stepping on each other's toes.


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Diane Close
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Quote:
The only thing left would be the rehearsal dinner, bride’s bouquet, transportation, officiant’s fees and the honeymoon.


Ooo!!! Pick that last one and tell her you'll choose something "really special" from this awesome selection! kiss
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Larry Welborn
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I stand by my statement in the original post.
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Honeymoon? Really?

Like I said: envelope of money. Done.

They can do whatever they want with it. This is just putting you on the hook for a bunch of crap that's really not yours to pay for. As for 'traditional,' well were is the dowry or three goats and a good milk cow? Come on.

I hate to say it, well no I don't actually... it's time for them to grow up an act like the big married people they are now.
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Thanks Jess. I was unsuccessfully trying to google that info.

Koldfoot, paying for a vasectomy may save my son money in the long run. I think she's going to be an expensive catch, if indeed he caught her.

We are definitely not paying for a honeymoon. They had one when they went to Florida and eloped.
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Stephen Harkleroad
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You've already committed to the rehearsal dinner, right?

(It's hard to tell, since I don't know the standard of living in their area, and I'm not sure what kind of job(s) your son and DIL have.)

Depending on your situation, I would add whatever that bill comes to, and throw in some extra cash (maybe an extra 10-20% or a couple hundred bucks?) I'm certain will be inadequate for her but will fit your needs nicely. No offense...you're culturally committed to the dinner, and if it's truly a reasonable accommodation I think that's not out of line on either end. Anything above and beyond that is a true gift to them.

But since she's asking for money for the honeymoon (moneymoon?), I suspect that no matter what your "offer" is going to be, she will not be pleased. (I don't mean to ascribe vices to her; I'm just making some rank assumptions.) If that's going to be the case, then might as well get off cheap. I'm not trying to be crude, but that's probably the best solution.
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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I've committed to the rehearsal dinner. The challenge is I work on a salary plus commission. The former just pays the bills. Everything else comes out of commissions... savings, guns, games, special events etc.

When things are going well for me, I can make a very nice amount of money in a short period of time, like last October. My son and DIL needed money in December for a financial emergency, my son has a health issue and treatment was getting expensive, and I gave them several hundred dollars to pay their delinquent condo fees. No strings attached.

When they aren't going as well, I need to be more conservative financially and live smaller like I have had to for the last couple of months to maintain my emergency cash reserves and keep my credit card balances zero. Right now I could commit to all this. But I'm living small until I some of my big deals fall.


OMG, I can't believe who just sent me an email. I may need more advice on this... who can I turn to? Admiral Akbar comes to mind. What would he say about this request?

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Scrib, the fact that you're doing anything is a great thing. They eloped and got MARRIED. Asking for anything more than a family gettogether is just wrong on their part. Do your best for the rehersal dinner and then give your son a pat on the shoulder and "Good luck." If they want to renew their vows then it's their dime for it.

Enjoy the dinner, bring embarassing pictures of your son and dance a lot. Make sure to offer make a good long impassioned toast... and have fun.
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Joe Gola
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This girl is already living in a fantasy land, what does she need a honeymoon for? Just tell her to dream up a couple of unicorns and ride them over to Ice Cream Mountain.
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This all started with a wedding planner. What happened to her? My guess is that your DIL's family is starting to balk too.

You could just decide what amount you want to give them and they can work with that. After all, that is really what they are asking. Instead of giving an amount for each of the things she's listed, give them one sum. When you are bargaining with someone, one of the tricks is to break it down, hammer out costs for each, and then go to the lump sum and bring it down more. She's doing that in reverse.

Plus, if you give them a lump sum, you don't have to say you are not paying for a honeymoon.
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I'm hoping I just have sons because then all I have to worry about is building a rapport with my son's new mother-in-law and making sure I have a few drinks so I'm friendly and supportive and welcoming to all. Brilliant.



Tell her that if they want a honeymoon they should do it the same way as the wedding - without letting you know about it.
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Quote:
Make friends with a good counselor who can advise you how to nip the manipulation in the bud. ... A good counselor knows how a manipulative person thinks and could be one themselves if they chose to put their talent to use in a bad way.


Obviously, eloping so you can get married in a church that wouldn't otherwise perform the ceremony is manipulating the system. If I were the pastor of that church, I wouldn't perform the ceremony.

In any case, I am not being manipulated as much as I am incredulous of her expectations. By the way, I regularly spend time with a psycho-therapist. She is a former gf of 6 years and for the past 6 my regular cultural companion. She is in the loop on this whole thing.

She thinks it's insane, especially in this economy, to spend that kind of money on a wedding. It's doubly so for a re-inactment or a renewal of the marriage vows. Furthermore to expect many many others to invest hundreds of dollars each in tuxedos(14 at $120 a pop) dresses, accessories, gifts and in some cases travel for the privilege of participating in a event that has no legal or religious significance. I really wonder what her friends think of this.
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Sounds like she's looking at web sites like this:

http://www.ourmarriage.com/html/who_pays_for_what.html

However, I would point out that "Groom's Family" only falls under Groom's Cake, Rehearsal, and Your clothes. Everything else falls under the "Groom." Since they are already married and living together, I'm assuming that you are no longer financially responsible for your son! Tell her to go fly a kite (but in a nice way).
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After all is said and done you know there is going to be some sort of function happening. So when it is all over... please remember to send us an image of the cake to enjoy... I love wedding cakes... they're so tasty.

Oh and pictures of the bridesmaids... poor girls always get stuck in some of the most inhospitable gear...

And one of the bride and groom of course. It's not a wedding without them.
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Mystery McMysteryface
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Ok, so I'm a bit of a tightwad, but Dictionary.com says:

hon·ey·moon
   /ˈhʌniˌmun/ Show Spelled[huhn-ee-moon] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a vacation or trip taken by a newly married couple.
2.
the month or so following a marriage.


Looks like you're off the hook!!!!!

Seriously Scribs, and since you already made the plans for the rehearsal dinner, you need to just give them a lump sum for the remaining expenses and as a wedding gift.

I really feel sorry for your son. shake
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wow

I think I'm looking at this from a totally different angle.

If you have the guts to ask someone for money, even for wedding expenses or what have you, you damn well better have the balls to TALK to them, not send an email.

WTF!?!

I'm on the "give a lump sum and they can do with it what they will" side. Wedding etiquette and tradition is all over the place now that people are getting married later in life. It's not like 30-40 years ago when kids got married right out of college or high school and only lived at home up to that point - they needed the help of their parents because they usually didn't have anything yet, anyway.

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Wow, just wow. Maybe she could audition for that Bridezilla show and have them pay for the wedding. Then we could all watch it on TV.

Scrib - they already had their honeymoon, no need to contribute to that. I would say what several others before me have, stick with the rehearsal dinner and then give them money as a present and that is it.

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I just read your original post and did a "wait what????"

scribidinus wrote:

DIL: "It's so nice having a wedding planner. I planned the last one. Now I just tell Mom and Katrina what I want and they make it happen."


The last one!!!!!

Does this mean that she has already been married once before, or is this in reference to the Florida thing.

Also - I have a hard time believing that a christian church would not marry them. What church do they go to? It may be that after an interview the pastor felt that your new DIL just should not get married.
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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walk_softly wrote:
I just read your original post and did a "wait what????"

scribidinus wrote:

DIL: "It's so nice having a wedding planner. I planned the last one. Now I just tell Mom and Katrina what I want and they make it happen."


The last one!!!!!

Does this mean that she has already been married once before, or is this in reference to the Florida thing.

Also - I have a hard time believing that a christian church would not marry them. What church do they go to? It may be that after an interview the pastor felt that your new DIL just should not get married.


The reference to "the last wedding" is to the elopement in Florida. As has been confirmed by my son, the pastor of her church, The First Christian Church, would not marry them while they were living in sin. It is strange to me that he would not perform the ceremony that would legitimize their spiritual and physical union in the eyes of God (and the law) in his church... Disney World had no problem with it... then allow this mock wedding in his church.

There is a lot of back ground friction here, too. The former Mrs. Scrib was vocally opposed to my son moving in with her and living in sin. Her attitude was get married somewhere by somebody ASAP. After they eloped, my son and DIL did not tell her about the wedding for several weeks. It hurt her feelings a great deal. The former Mrs. Scrib has also had professional dealings in the past with the wedding planner as a client of my exes organization. They was some unpleasantness there. I suspect over money.

I can understand that a young woman, marrying for the first time, might want a big traditional wedding in her church. But one is not entitled to a such an event just because one is a young woman marrying for the first time. It's the "entitlement vibe" she sends out that strikes us (me, the former Mrs Scrib and my Cultural Companion) as galling and annoying. I agree. A phone call instead of an email would have been nice. An invitation to their home for dinner to discuss what reasonable expectations and commitments are would have been nice. (My ex has never been invited to their home.) Even though we live in 3 different towns, it could have been arranged. As it is my ex and I feel more like resources to be tapped than family.


All that said, I hope y'all keep this discussion among the few thousand of us in in Chit Chat.
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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I had a conversation with the former Mrs. Scrib today. She is opposed to just giving an envelope full of money for their discretionary use. Her reasoning is, it is apparent that the bride is driving this train. She is liable to make choices without any input from my son. He has made some reasonable suggestions and stated some preferences for the rehearsal dinner menu. If money goes into the general wedding fund his wishes may be overruled and our contribution diluted and minimized. A valid point and I agree. My ex feels that my son saw that email the same time we did and was not a contributor.
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Joe Gola
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Actually this girl sounds a lot like someone I know, so in all seriousness, I do have some advice, which is that you have to resist the temptation to pitch any kind of smart-ass "what the hell is wrong with you?" vibe back at her. She seems a little bit disconnected from reality, and if your reaction comes off as any kind of critique on her ideas or personality, she'll likely decide that it's all about that—in other words, that you're choosing not to pay for her honeymoon just because you don't like her. It'll be much easier and more pleasant for her to decide that you're a jerk rather than that she's one.

When the disconnected-from-reality person I know puts me in those kinds of situations, I just summon up a blank, brainless look and act like I barely understand what the person is talking about. I politely and cheerfully give reasons why I can't or won't do what the person would like me to do and I act as though I am oblivious to the fact that they are sending me heavy signals that they really, really want me to do it. I call it "the wall of stupid." The person likely thinks I'm a bit dense, which is okay by me, because I get what I want.
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