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Tomb: Cryptmaster» Forums » Rules

Subject: Two questions: Adonis; and monsters using spells/prayers rss

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Mont A.
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Hi folks,

I've never played Tomb, and just got Cryptmaster. Am still trying to wrap my head around the rules.

Two (what I'm sure are probably) dumb questions:

(1) If a monster has magic or holiness dice, then it attaches one randomly drawn spell or prayer card at battle's beginning. So I guess (duh) this means that the monster can use that spell/prayer during battle. So if a monster has Battle Healing ("Battle: Roll Holiness. Remove that many wounds from the party"), then I guess it can use that prayer to heal itself and other monsters in its crypt?

Since this is a battle action, does using this prayer replace the monster's normal attack during that round, as it would for a character? Or can a monster both attack and use attached spells/prayers in the same round?

(2) I'm still trying to understand CM effects. I'm looking at the character Adonis, for example, who has "CM Battle: Use a spell or prayer attached to Adonis as if he were a monster the crypt [sic]". Does that mean that Adonis himself is considered to be in the crypt, or only the spell/prayer?
I mean, let's say that he has attached the prayer Battle Healing, and I'm the CM during a raid, and want to use his Battle Healing to heal wounded monsters. Do I make the roll using Adonis's own Holiness dice, or do I choose a monster in the crypt to make the roll with its own Holiness dice? And either way, does using this prayer count against the number of actions which the monsters can take during the battle round?

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm so confused....
 
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Neil Edmonds
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I saw your post off the main page. Tomb can be a very confusing game. The CryptMaster supplement helped clear up some of the rules issues present in the original game.

1.) Pg 12 of the CryptMaster rules defines Battle Action as "A character in your party may use ONE battle action per round. This can be a printed battle action on a card, or one of the two following standard battle actions: Attack... Return to the Inn (Flee)..." So the monster could either use Battle Healing or attack a player but not both. Since the cards are all written with players in mind, monsters using them would switch the terms around in a manner that makes sense (ie - a benefit for the party becomes a benefit for the monster, a negative effect targeting monsters becomes a negative effect targeting the raiding party, etc). Note that is is possible to draw a spell that says TURN as opposed to BATTLE or REACT. These cards are worthless for monsters since they don't get a turn so those spells couldn't be cast.

2.) The terminology is confusing and you've correctly identified the problem. My answer isn't official since I don't work for AEG but I'll cite "Rule Zero" on page 7 that says "Whenever a card contradicts the basic rules, the card text takes precedent." The important text appears to be "as if he were a monster in the crypt." That means the spell would use Adonis' traits and it would be cast as part of the battle round order (ie - alternate between monsters and players taking battle actions). That means in your example there's a stand-in "monster" whose only valid action is casting "Battle Healing". This virtual monster could not be assigned wounds, targeted, etc. The CM can decide when to use Battle Healing.
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Mont A.
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Thanks for the detailed (and eminently clear) reply! I think I get it now.

Though I'm afraid I have another question about CM battle actions. Does using one count as a monster's attack? For example, if I'm CM for a crypt that has one monster in it, and I have the Dungeon Plans Cryptmaster card ("CM Battle: Exchange a treasure in the crypt with a treasure in your party"), can I attack once with the monster and in addition use the Cryptmaster card? Or does using the card replace the monster's attack? (I'm guessing the former, although the way in which the rulebook presents the "Combat Sequence" on page 12 implies that a CM battle action may only be used by a defending monster that has not yet performed a battle action during the combat round, which implies that the CM battle action counts as the monster's action for the round.)

And can I play the Cryptmaster card in a battle round even if all defending monsters have already been killed? I assume not, given paragraph 4 under "Combat Sequence" on page 12. So if, say, as CM, I'm controlling a single monster in a battle, and after attacking he is killed by the party's first character, does that mean I can't play the Dungeon Plans card, because there are no defenders left?
 
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Neil Edmonds
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Another great set of questions. I would say a CM: Battle action would be your one battle action for that sequence. So you'd have to choose between using the treasure swap ability or attacking with the monster before combat reverts back to the raiding party (if the raiding party has characters left that haven't taken a battle action that round).

The second question is more interesting. Does the treasure swap ability count as a "monster" with regards to being guaranteed a battle round action? Ie - lone monster attacks, player attacks and kills the lone monster, then the battle action triggers since it's still in the queue. I could rules lawyer for either side of the argument but I'm leaning towards saying the battle is over when the lone monster dies.

Think of the treasure swap or battle healing from your previous example as being bonus abilities your monster group can trigger as part of the combat. If all the monsters are dead there's nobody around to use them anymore. Instead of attacking the first round the lone monster throws the magic amulet down a sewer grate. Perhaps the monsters in the crypt don't normally cast magic but one of them is special and learned a battle charm taught to them by the tribe's shaman.

One other thing to remember about spells or abilities - they can only be used once per battle. So if you have a fireball attached to a wizard you can use it once during the combat not every time the wizard has a battle action. That's why you may want multiple spell or prayer cards attached to the same character.
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Brent Keith
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Typhon wrote:
(1) If a monster has magic or holiness dice, then it attaches one randomly drawn spell or prayer card at battle's beginning. So I guess (duh) this means that the monster can use that spell/prayer during battle.

Correct.
Quote:
So if a monster has Battle Healing ("Battle: Roll Holiness. Remove that many wounds from the party"), then I guess it can use that prayer to heal itself and other monsters in its crypt?

Also correct.

Quote:
Since this is a battle action, does using this prayer replace the monster's normal attack during that round, as it would for a character?

Correct again!

Quote:
(2) I'm still trying to understand CM effects. I'm looking at the character Adonis, for example, who has "CM Battle: Use a spell or prayer attached to Adonis as if he were a monster the crypt [sic]". Does that mean that Adonis himself is considered to be in the crypt, or only the spell/prayer?

While using the effect, roll dice and choose targets as if he were there. Once the effect is over, he is once again ignored - just like anyone else who isn't there.

Quote:
I mean, let's say that he has attached the prayer Battle Healing, and I'm the CM during a raid, and want to use his Battle Healing to heal wounded monsters. Do I make the roll using Adonis's own Holiness dice,

Correct.

Quote:
And either way, does using this prayer count against the number of actions which the monsters can take during the battle round?

Not as such, but it does count as the action for the CM's side in the sequence of CM, player, CM, player, CM, player, etc. (Usually, the CM's side is one of the monsters acting, if there are any who haven't acted yet, and the player's side is one of the characters acting, if there are any who haven't acted yet. CM actions like that one take up the CM's turn, but don't use a monster's action unless it comes from the monster or an attached card.)
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Brent Keith
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Typhon wrote:
Though I'm afraid I have another question about CM battle actions. Does using one count as a monster's attack?

There are two possible ways of interpreting that question. In a given round, each monster and character gets to act once. The sequence of those actions is CM, Player, CM, Player, etc. until both players pass (generally due to all characters and monsters still alive having acted). Using a CM action (such as in your example) would take up the CM's place in that sequence, but it would not mean that it takes up a monster's opportunity to act later in the round.

Does that make sense, or have I confused things further?

Quote:
And can I play the Cryptmaster card in a battle round even if all defending monsters have already been killed?

No.
Quote:
I assume not, given paragraph 4 under "Combat Sequence" on page 12. So if, say, as CM, I'm controlling a single monster in a battle, and after attacking he is killed by the party's first character, does that mean I can't play the Dungeon Plans card, because there are no defenders left?

Correct. Once all the monsters are dead, it is too late.
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Mont A.
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AEGBrent wrote:
Does that make sense, or have I confused things further?

Crystal clear, Brent -- on this point, but also all the others! Thanks for the detailed point-by-point address of all my questions. Much appreciated. thumbsup
 
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Mont A.
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Autoduelist wrote:
I could rules lawyer for either side of the argument but I'm leaning towards saying the battle is over when the lone monster dies.

Seems you were right, Autoduelist.
 
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