Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
54 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: Gobekli Tepe dig in Turkey may redefine history rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
James Webb Space Telescope in 2018!
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
I found this very interesting. Hadn't heard of it before. The beginning place of civilization?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/233844

Schmidt has uncovered a vast and beautiful temple complex, a structure so ancient that it may be the very first thing human beings ever built. The site isn't just old, it redefines old: the temple was built 11,500 years ago—a staggering 7,000 years before the Great Pyramid, and more than 6,000 years before Stonehenge first took shape.

The ruins are so early that they predate villages, pottery, domesticated animals, and even agriculture—the first embers of civilization. In fact, Schmidt thinks the temple itself ... became that ember — the spark that launched mankind toward farming, urban life, and all that followed....

Genetic mapping shows that the first domestication of wheat was in this immediate area—perhaps at a mountain visible in the distance—a few centuries after Göbekli's founding. Animal husbandry also began near here—the first domesticated pigs came from the surrounding area in about 8000 B.C., and cattle were domesticated in Turkey before 6500 B.C. Pottery followed. Those discoveries then flowed out to places like Çatalhöyük, the oldest-known Neolithic village, which is 300 miles to the west.


6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cool article!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Taylor
United States
Gastonia
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aw yeah, they're finally gonna find Adam's and Eve's bones!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I see you...
United States
Avon
Ohio
flag msg tools
"I made a promise on the grave of my parents...
badge
...that I would rid this city of the evil that took their lives. "
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Very cool!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JDTAY wrote:
Aw yeah, they're finally gonna find Adam's and Eve's bones!

How would they know if they had?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Taylor
United States
Gastonia
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
JDTAY wrote:
Aw yeah, they're finally gonna find Adam's and Eve's bones!

How would they know if they had?


The fig leaves, duh. Those fossilize, right?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I see you...
United States
Avon
Ohio
flag msg tools
"I made a promise on the grave of my parents...
badge
...that I would rid this city of the evil that took their lives. "
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JDTAY wrote:
whac3 wrote:
JDTAY wrote:
Aw yeah, they're finally gonna find Adam's and Eve's bones!

How would they know if they had?


The fig leaves, duh. Those fossilize, right?


No belly buttons also
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
On skeletons? Besides, I never bought the whole "no belly-button" thing. If they were created as adults, they would have to physiologically be built as if they had had a normal childhood. So why leave out belly-buttons?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I see you...
United States
Avon
Ohio
flag msg tools
"I made a promise on the grave of my parents...
badge
...that I would rid this city of the evil that took their lives. "
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
On skeletons? Besides, I never bought the whole "no belly-button" thing. If they were created as adults, they would have to physiologically be built as if they had had a normal childhood. So why leave out belly-buttons?


Adam would be missing a rib also.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dispaminite wrote:
whac3 wrote:
On skeletons? Besides, I never bought the whole "no belly-button" thing. If they were created as adults, they would have to physiologically be built as if they had had a normal childhood. So why leave out belly-buttons?


Adam would be missing a rib also.

Why assume the change was not physiological as well? Before the event, Adam was neither male nor female; after it, he was distinctly male with Chava being female and separate. How would one know hewas "missing" a rib?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I see you...
United States
Avon
Ohio
flag msg tools
"I made a promise on the grave of my parents...
badge
...that I would rid this city of the evil that took their lives. "
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
whac3 wrote:
On skeletons? Besides, I never bought the whole "no belly-button" thing. If they were created as adults, they would have to physiologically be built as if they had had a normal childhood. So why leave out belly-buttons?


Adam would be missing a rib also.

Why assume the change was not physiological as well? Before the event, Adam was neither male nor female; after it, he was distinctly male with Chava being female and separate. How would one know hewas "missing" a rib?


Actually, I'm just pulling stuff out my ass.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Burt
Canada
Saskatoon
Saskatchewan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
whac3 wrote:
On skeletons? Besides, I never bought the whole "no belly-button" thing. If they were created as adults, they would have to physiologically be built as if they had had a normal childhood. So why leave out belly-buttons?


Just out of curiousity, why would they have to be built as if they had a normal childhood?

whac3 wrote:
Why assume the change was not physiological as well? Before the event, Adam was neither male nor female; after it, he was distinctly male with Chava being female and separate. How would one know hewas "missing" a rib


You would know better than I, but is that the way it was written originally, as English translations call him a man.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Xlyce;

The word adam means human rather than man. Another meaning is mankind. The text states explicitly that G-d made the first human male and female at the same time.

As for the physiology, a normal human carries traces of childhood in bones etc. That's how humans are built.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DCAnderson wrote:
Finding Adam and Eve's skeletons would be easy, all you have to do is find the two skeletons that you can carbon date to 6,000 years ago that were not planted there by Satan just to confuse everyone.

Uh-huh. That might be funnier if you were talking to a Christian, because maybe a Christian might believe that. To a Jew, the concept of the Christians' Satan is just bizarre.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Webb Space Telescope in 2018!
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
In deciding where to post this, I was as usual wishing there was a "sci tech" forum. But it looks like RSP turned out to be the right place after all.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Webb Space Telescope in 2018!
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
whac3,
Since this thread already appears at least temporarily derailed --

I'm curious if the Jewish religion has a concept similar to Satan or some other person or force that is a literal or symbolic representation of evil, the null of good, etc. This is a serious question, and also, only answer if you want to (not that I can force you anyway :-)

[updated: Looks like DCAnderson and I were on the same wavelength. I'm curious to hear your answer.]
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
Isn't OT where Satan is the most active? And isn't OT one of Judaism's scriptures, alongside Torah?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
But to go back to the subject, isn't it interesting that they seemed to have built a temple before agriculture? What about Stonehenge, was it built by hunters and gatherers?

The archeologist seems to think the temple "inspired" agriculture.

Can't it be that the two events were caused by the same third force? For example, a sort of organization in place that made long-term projects possible?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benny
United States
Topeka
Kansas
flag msg tools
Everyone likes a piece of pie.
badge
That's wonderful. Good for you! I've always wanted to have a haunted house. It's been my lifelong dream!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mondainai wrote:
But to go back to the subject, isn't it interesting that they seemed to have built a temple before agriculture? What about Stonehenge, was it built by hunters and gatherers?

The archeologist seems to think the temple "inspired" agriculture.

Can't it be that the two events were caused by the same third force? For example, a sort of organization in place that made long-term projects possible?


Considering that it is a stub in a popular news magazine, I'm not sure why such specualtion is called for.

Still, I am curious what organizing principle you are thinking of.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
Benjro wrote:
Still, I am curious what organizing principle you are thinking of.
Well, some kind of land ownership by a human entity, clan, nation, tribe or whatever you want to call it. An entity strong and stable enough to withhold attacks from roaming tribes.

A land with a stable food supply, such as wild-growing wheat, should make it possible for more permanent settlements. That should in turn make it worthwhile to engage in long-term projects.

A lot of hunters/nomads might have felt the urge to build structures to celebrate their deities, but as they've been chased off the land sooner or later, by food scarcity or enemies, they never got the peace and time to erect something archeologists of the 21st century can identify as temples.

A lot of gatherers might have experimented with making better conditions for the fruits they've picked, to return again and again to pick from the same bush. But as they've been chased off the land sooner or later, by food scarcity or enemies, they haven't got around to amass enough success to understand the basics of agriculture.

When conditions arose for permanent settlement by one human entity, however, both temple building and agriculture could develop. Farming, in turn, allowed for more sophisticated structures.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tesuji wrote:
In deciding where to post this, I was as usual wishing there was a "sci tech" forum. But it looks like RSP turned out to be the right place after all.

In spite of other misinformation, the S in RSP is for science.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Ellis
United States
Brookline
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
chiddler wrote:
whac3 wrote:
DCAnderson wrote:
Finding Adam and Eve's skeletons would be easy, all you have to do is find the two skeletons that you can carbon date to 6,000 years ago that were not planted there by Satan just to confuse everyone.

Uh-huh. That might be funnier if you were talking to a Christian, because maybe a Christian might believe that. To a Jew, the concept of the Christians' Satan is just bizarre.


So its not possible for you to understand a joke about Christianity?

Really Moshe, you need to remove the stick from your ass occasionally.


Between us, I'm more worried about Dis pulling ribs out of his!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DC;

Hasatan just means "the Accuser". He is an angel who has a dirty job. Every year, the entire world is judged in the Court of Heaven (our heaven being nothing like the Christians' and not a place for humans). Hasatan acts as the prosecutor bringing up all the bad stuff a person did. Then all the good things a person did are brought up by the other side. Then Eloqim acts as judge and decides if a person needs special reward or punishment for the coming year. The vast majority of people don't though.
3 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
chiddler wrote:

So its not possible for you to understand a joke about Christianity?

Really Moshe, you need to remove the stick from your ass occasionally.

It was a snide remark, and I responded to it as such. You may find when you grow up a bit, chiddler, that a snide remark and a joke are not the same,

Besides, I can be cranky when I wanna be, nah.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Webb Space Telescope in 2018!
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
whac3 wrote:
DC;

Hasatan just means "the Accuser". He is an angel who has a dirty job. Every year, the entire world is judged in the Court of Heaven (our heaven being nothing like the Christians' and not a place for humans). Hasatan acts as the prosecutor bringing up all the bad stuff a person did. Then all the good things a person did are brought up by the other side. Then Eloqim acts as judge and decides if a person needs special reward or punishment for the coming year. The vast majority of people don't though.

Thanks, very interesting. I'd never heard of the Jewish view. I'm going to find out more about it.

My church (Mormon) actually believes something a similar. We think of Satan as "the accuser" too (from the Hebrew, as you said) and Christ as "our advocate" defending us. It's all more of a final judgement idea for us rather than yearly. God is merciful and also just, so Satan and Christ represent those two sides, but it's Christ's atonement that makes mercy possible for those who will follow him.

We see Satan as a personal accuser, pointing out our negatives to us and trying to get us to feel like prayer and repentance won't do us any good, so why try (a false notion in our view).

Again, thanks.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.