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Subject: Gold Piles rss

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Nico Buffing
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I couldnt find any changes to the gold piles that the players take for 100 coins per hero, so does this mean each one is 400 gold for the party of 4 heroes?
Looting chests, piles like this, killing master monsters for 50 each and level leaders for 100 each seems like the players are gaining a lot of money very fast: they gathered more then 1600 gold from just two dungeon levels.
Also, can the players still sell a copper item they loot for 250 coins on looting it in RtL?
 
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Ed Rozmiarek
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Infyra wrote:
I couldnt find any changes to the gold piles that the players take for 100 coins per hero, so does this mean each one is 400 gold for the party of 4 heroes?

Yes, gold piles are worth 400 gold which goes to the party treasury.

Infyra wrote:
Looting chests, piles like this, killing master monsters for 50 each and level leaders for 100 each seems like the players are gaining a lot of money very fast: they gathered more then 1600 gold from just two dungeon levels.

Don't worry, they will spend it very quickly. Have you checked to see how much the upgrades cost? The Staff of the Wild, the magic boat, Tamalir upgrades, skills, dice upgrades, potions, etc.

Infyra wrote:
Also, can the players still sell a copper item they loot for 250 coins on looting it in RtL?

The party can sell items back at the market (store items or treasure) for half of their cost. (See "The Market" on page 22 of the rules.)
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T. B.
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Yeah, 400 coins for a pile. There's a lot of stuff for heroes to spend money on (new skills, attribute upgrades, Tamalir upgrades, etc., are pretty expensive), so they won't be too flush for long.

I don't think they can immediately sell a treasure from a chest the same way as in vanilla Descent. I'm pretty sure they have to return to the market. I could be wrong, though.

Edit: The first paragraph is old news by now.
 
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Nico Buffing
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Thanks for the replies, I found a FAQ updated in March 2009 after searching for the most recent one (a message on the FFG website says that due to a corrupted file they had to take the FAQ offline), is that one the most recent one?
It says on that FAQ that the option to sell items on looting has been removed from the game and players have to carry the items to the Market and sell them there now
 
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Tufty McTavish
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edroz wrote:
Yes, gold piles are worth 400 gold which goes to the party treasury.


Really? Wow, we thought it was only 100gp.

And likewise we thought that Treasures found are a single item to be distributed amongst the party. Ie. one Treasure result from a chest roll meant a single Treasure item as opposed to the normal rules of 1 Treasure causing 4 Treasures to be distributed, one per hero.
 
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Nico Buffing
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I think that last part is true isnt it? At least that how we played it last night. One treasure draw per blank rolled.
 
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Tim Nordin
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Treasure is not given equally to all party members as it is in vanilla Descent. My understanding is that the treasure chests are always rolled for and the party receives whatever the dice tell them. If they roll one treasure, the party receives one treasure. If they roll all treasures, then bad luck for the Overlord, but the party gets 4 treasures. I think that any one in the party can immediately take whatever treasures come up, though.

edit: I also thought that treasure piles were worth only 100gp. Is there somewhere that this rule is clarified?

edit again: In this other thread, I found this quote that summed it up nice for me.

corbon wrote:

There is no rule for this in RtL, which means that you follow vanilla rules.

Each hero gets 100 cash, and since all cash is held in a party collective, the party gets 400 cash.


Also, shnar says that it's 400 gold in other places, and that's usually good enough for me to believe it.

Tim
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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With the treasures, think of it as though each hero is rolling one of the power dice to see what is found. If a blank is rolled then one treasure is found (not four treasures). The hero who "found" that treasure can give it to anyone, so it's freely distributed however the party likes it.

-shnar
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Retired Hurt

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There are many differences.

In vanilla descent, a pile is worth 4 * 100 gp, but everyone gets one's part and risks losing half one's total treasure when one dies.
In RtL, neither is true, and these effects more ore less compensate.

In RtL, I like to see this as an account, over which any gold from chests / piles / killing monsters / completing rumopur quests is instantly deposited and from where you can take money when buying objects, paying trainers, hiring a guide or bribing trolls.

And indeed, money will be short, especially at the beginning. That's why the Caverns of Thuul are important.


 
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Nico Buffing
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Alright the money pile at 400 coins is pretty clear to me, I just have one more minor question about Chests in RtL.
The rule book states that if there are no treasures in the chest, the heroes earn one EXTRA conquest point from the chest. I realise in vanilla Decent chests could contain conquest points, but I dont see any rules in the RtL rules that state chests are worth conquest points besides that one point if there are no items in them.
Is the word EXTRA here unneeded, or is there a scenario where chests actually give conquest points in RtL that I haven't come across yet? (maybe rumor or legendary dungeons).
 
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Retired Hurt

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It's merely one more than those they get from other sources (glyphs, kills, one rumour, beginning the exploration of a new dungeon, did I miss one ?). Think of it as a compensation for bad luck.

And BTW the 400 coins aren't at all clear to yours truly.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Depends on your point of view about "extra" being useless, but irregardless, heroes earn either 0 or 1 CPs from a treasure chest (0 if they find at least one treasure card then they receive 0CPs. If no treasure cards are found, they get 1CP).

-shnar
 
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Ed Rozmiarek
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Merrimac wrote:
And BTW the 400 coins aren't at all clear to yours truly.

It's funny, this has to be the single most frequently asked question for RtL and yet it is not in the FAQ.

To quote page 5 of the base RtL rules:
But unless the basic rules of Descent are specifically overridden by the Advanced Campaign rules, they remain in effect.
(Note: Even they list that in italics.)

Since there is no rule in the RtL rulebook stating what the treasure piles are worth, the rule from base Descent stands. Therefore it's 100 gold per hero and there are always four heroes. So, each treasure pile is worth 400 gold total.

Edit: Typo
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Retired Hurt

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Still unconvinced.

In basic Descent, when a chest is opened, every hero gets coins to add to one's personal bag.

In RtL, there is only one bag ; so there is indeed a change in the rules.

If it was that obvious,it wouldn't be the single most asked question, would it ?
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T. B.
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There's no official answer, I guess, so your group can put it to a vote or however you resolve things. We've been using the 400 gold per pile rule and the heroes are still strapped for cash and behind in CT, so it seems to work fine for us. devil
 
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Merrimac wrote:
Still unconvinced.

In basic Descent, when a chest is opened, every hero gets coins to add to one's personal bag.

In RtL, there is only one bag ; so there is indeed a change in the rules.

If it was that obvious,it wouldn't be the single most asked question, would it ?


Most people on the board seem to be saying that in RtL the heroes never get enough money even when piles = 400. If that is the case, do you think making the piles worth even less is good for the heroes, or even for the fun of the game? You may never get it spelled out for the RAW in a way that can't be argued. FFG's support for rules questions seems to be let the game developer answer it, and only if you send an email through their rules form. Kevin Wilson made Descent, and he seems to constantly be busy with his next new idea. Odds are, you may never get an official answer on this.

Your choices as I see them are:

1 - Play your way with piles = 100. Watch the heroes never be able to afford to upgrade. There is a large possibility the hero player(s) will find the game to be a miserable experience and it will hardly ever get played.

2 - Play the way we suggest where piles = 400. The heroes should be able to upgrade themselves as long as they plan out what they think is the best options at the time. Hopefully the hero player(s) will find the game hard but fair and want to play it more.

3 - Complain about how poorly the game is written and how FFG doesn't seem to care about their customers. Put the game away until FFG gets the time to support you "as they should". Watch the money you spent on it collect dust on a shelf.

I really don't understand the whole RAW argument. The intent of the game is to have fun. FFG is not the best company out there when it comes to writing and editing, but then again they make very complex games. Sometimes you will be forced to figure out the intent of what they wrote in order to play. If you aren't ok with this, stick to simply written games, like Euros. ^_^
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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If you want to go with RAW, here's all you have:



Quote:
The Basics
Most of the time - that is, when the heroes are exploring the
dungeons of Terrinoth - the Advanced Campaign plays like a
normal game of Descent. The heroes still choose one of four
actions each turn, still place orders, still gain conquest tokens
for activating glyphs, and so on.

The major differences between regular Descent and the
Advanced Campaign come in the times when dungeons are not
being explored, as the heroes travel across Terrinoth and
receive advanced training. But unless the basic rules of Descent
are specifically overridden by the Advanced Campaign rules,
they remain in effect.


The Hero Party and Party Treasury
The Advanced Campaign is designed for a party of exactly four
heroes. If there are fewer than four hero players, one or more
must control an extra hero. To save time, extra heroes should
be given to the most experienced players.

Collectively, the four heroes are known as the party. They
travel together at all times except when momentarily split up
by a member’s death.

In the Advanced Campaign, the heroes pool their wealth into a
party treasury,
from which any hero may spend. Heroes do
not lose coins when they die in the Advanced Campaign.

RtL pg 5


To me, at least, this means that any gold the heroes pick up is "pooled" into the Party Treasury, regardless of where that gold was found. So, if a hero kills a Master monster, 50 gold goes into the Party Treasury. If the heroes loot an encounter, that gold goes into the Treasury. When a hero moves onto a Gold Pile, that gold goes into the treasury.

The bold part at the top indicates that if a rule is not explicitly overwritten in RtL, play it how it is played in the basic Descent game. Searching the RtL manual, there is no mention of "Money Markers" and only one mention of Gold Piles (in the legend before all the dungeon level maps). Since there is no mention of Gold Piles in rules themselves of RtL, we have to turn to basic Descent to learn how to use them:

Quote:
Money Markers
When a hero picks up a money marker, the
marker is discarded and every hero immediately
gains 100 coins
(including dead heroes
or heroes in town).

Descent rulebook, pg 18


This rule is not overridden in RtL, so it is still in effect. And whenever any hero receives coins, it's added to the party treasury.

Thus, a Gold Pile gives 400 Coin to the Party Treasury. Make sense? Fully supported by RAW.

-shnar
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Tim Nordin
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bohemian wrote:
There's no official answer, I guess, so your group can put it to a vote or however you resolve things. We've been using the 400 gold per pile rule and the heroes are still strapped for cash and behind in CT, so it seems to work fine for us. devil


Actually, I was just looking through the Questions Asked and Answered forum on FFG's website. There is an official answer there from either Kevin Wilson or Dan Clark.

The link is below, and then the quoted text from the page
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...

Quote:
1, How much gold does the party get from a coin pile? 100 total or 100 each still (400)?
2, Can a party still pay to recuperate when in the wilderness?
3, If a party chooses not to enter a dungeon, is it still crossed off, or can they visit it later?


1. 400 coins total.
2. You have to be in town to heal.
3. No. Only if you flee from a dungeon or finish it does it get crossed off.


Now, why didn't they put it in the FAQ? who knows. I feel like this pretty much puts it to rest, even though most of the best rules experts (shnar, edroz, etc) on BGG already had the answer.

Good luck,
Tim
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Slyvanian Frog
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Is it correct that the 400 gold from a coin pile does not scale per campaign level (i.e. it is 400 gold in each of the copper, silver, and gold campaign levels)?
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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SlyFrog wrote:
Is it correct that the 400 gold from a coin pile does not scale per campaign level (i.e. it is 400 gold in each of the copper, silver, and gold campaign levels)?


Correct,they are always 400 coins, regardless of campaign level. This is one reason why coins become the rare resource towards the end of the game (as heroes are trying to upgrade before the final fight)...

-shnar
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