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Subject: Mission expansions for sale? rss

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Eric Ruhland
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I am not a customizer and I don't have a high quality printer. I really wish Mayfair would produce the 3 mission expansions and bundle them as a single expansion set for sale. I would buy it. Not sure if there are enough others out there who would be willing to buy it though.

I would also be willing to buy a well produced set of these made by a more skilled customizer who has the tools, expertise, and patience to download these three missions and produce high quality components. I would be willing to compensate for time and materials happily. Maybe I'll get a message one day...
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I would buy such an expansion.

I think Starship Catan is a dormant product, though. I'm sure it has some sell-through on the Catan name alone, but the fan community here on BGG seems non-existent. There are outstanding rules issues that have been unresolved for over three years.
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Ted Duby
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What rules issues are they?

Are you sure you are not thinking of Starfarers of Catan?

By the way, it wasn't that hard to print out. Just use a little thicker cardstock instead of regular paper. It's really not a big deal.
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I've seen no satisfactory answer on what the limits are for using trading modules (for example, building the trade module, using it to buy from your opponent, and then using that resource to build the advanced trade module). I've read threads several years old and there was back and forth about it with no clear answer whatsoever. I asked about it and I got different answers from different people with no real authority at all. Basically, some people play it one way, others play it another, everyone thinks they're doing it right, some people vaguely refer to the German, no one actually translates the German, or if they do, their translations are not any clearer than the English. And of course, some people act like their interpretation somehow makes more intuitive sense or is more balanced or whatever.

No satisfactory ruling; open question for years.
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Simon Lundström
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Then again, it's not exactly the biggest rule-hole in history.

I'm not an authority, but as the designer is Klaus Teuber, I argue that it probably works as houses in normal Catan: you can build a house on a port and then use it immediately afterwards, I take it that if you build a trade module, you can use it immediately afterwards.

However, the trade colony (T planets) limit of "once per turn" gives partly the impression of being there so that players with a T-colony can't circumvent their resource stock limit. Therefore, I argue the same, that you can't use the advanced trade module twice, i.e. buy one, build, then buy another.

I'll see what I can find in the German rulebook, though.
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Zimeon wrote:
Then again, it's not exactly the biggest rule-hole in history.


True. Basically have to agree to play it one way at the start of the game. No arguments later.

Using Catan as a basis of comparison makes sense, but it also illustrates the nature of this discussion: everything I've seen refers to something else in order to make an educated guess.
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Simon Lundström
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JohnRayJr wrote:
Using Catan as a basis of comparison makes sense, but it also illustrates the nature of this discussion: everything I've seen refers to something else in order to make an educated guess.

Then again, educated guesses is often the best resource we have. As long as it's not a tournament where lives are on stake, it's also about the only resource we need.
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Bernd Weber
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There's a question in the official Geman FAQ: http://www.siedeln.de/faq/15_1184_de.html which can help us here.

Quick translation of the question:

Quote:
May I use the Trading Module I and II in the same turn?

If I own the Trading Module I, once a turn I can buy a resource from my enemy for 2 Astro. If I now build Trading Modulde II can I now buy another 2 resources from my enemy in the same turn?


The answer to the question from the FAQ is: No, you can't use it two times, because after all it's the same module (only upgraded). There is no clue in the answer that you can't use it because you just built the module (upgrade).

This makes me believe two things:
1. You can use the Trading module in the same turn you have built it.
2. You can use the Trading module I and then upgrade it in the same turn.
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Eric Ruhland
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I agree, there's really no rules issue here for me. It seems quite obvious to me that you can use the module as soon as you build it. You can use the module to buy a resource and then build the upgrade, but then you can't use it again as you already have, and you can only use the trade module during your 'Build and Trade' phase. I realize that you can pick out points in the English rule book to cast doubt on this interpretation but regardless I see no problem. The people I usually play with will play however I tell them because they have no other point of reference, and if I play someone who has their own background experience with the game I will happily play it by their interpretation since the destinction is minimal and will have only a small impact on gameplay which I can easily adjust for.

As for being easy to print and play, I am glad to hear that. Are there no cards that have to be mixed into the existing deck and which will be obviously different than the origionals though?
In any case my printer is crap but I could go have it printed at the local print shop.

Cool to see ther as still some folks paying attention to this game. However few there are.
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Eirikr wrote:
I agree, there's really no rules issue here for me.


I know there isn't, for you and everyone else. Yet you and everyone else do not agree, and you and everyone else cannot quote anything from the rulebook that directly resolves it, instead dismissing other interpretations as nitpicking or illogical or less likely or whatever.

Don't get me wrong, I agree completely with Zimeon when he says "educated guesses are often the only resources we need." I just find it amusing that SC fans pretend to be making anything else but guesses.

Perhaps I'm spoiled by the forums for other games. I can ask a rules question for most of my favorite games and get a straight, authoritative answer in minutes. Nobody uses phrases like "we've always played it as" or "this leads me to believe" or "logic would dictate." They just quote an overlooked clause in the rules or cite the company's official webiste/errata page. Or they quote the designer. Or the designer actually shows up and answers your question.

This forum is a bucket of cold water by comparison. Anyway, thanks for trying to help.

meeple
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JohnRayJr wrote:
Perhaps I'm spoiled by the forums for other games. I can ask a rules question for most of my favorite games and get a straight, authoritative answer in minutes. [...] Or the designer actually shows up and answers your question.

Games like Twilight Struggle? Sure. Slow or no response for Euros is par for the course, in my experience.

Still, rules issues or not, Jack's original "lack of interest" reply is probably correct, especially given the unavailability of the base game.

My friend did a nice job on the first two expansions. They were definitely fun but somewhat limited in strategy. I'd say it'd be worth as a $10 expansion to have all three available in an expansion kit (a la Zooloretto), but probably not worth the time to make your own copy.
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Dave wrote:
JohnRayJr wrote:
Perhaps I'm spoiled by the forums for other games. I can ask a rules question for most of my favorite games and get a straight, authoritative answer in minutes. [...] Or the designer actually shows up and answers your question.

Games like Twilight Struggle? Sure. Slow or no response for Euros is par for the course, in my experience.


Ah, you sly devil. I would add Le Havre, Pandemic (both relatively new), and 2038 (older than SC, out of print) to that list.

But whatever. SC is a great game with a core mechanic that still seems distinct and fresh 10 years later. I don't want to me the lone grouch in the discussion. I just want to know if trading modules are subject to the same rules as stations. They say you can use them anytime during the turn.

The FAQ quoted above does actually clear up half of the original confusion. I'm still not sure if you can use trading stations to buy the resources that allow you to build the trading module, build it, use it to obtain the resources for LII, and build the LII. That sounds like the definition of "buy-build-buy-build" to me.
 
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Simon Lundström
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JohnRayJr wrote:
I'm still not sure if you can use trading stations to buy the resources that allow you to build the trading module, build it, use it to obtain the resources for LII, and build the LII. That sounds like the definition of "buy-build-buy-build" to me.


It sure does, but for what my hunch (which might be the same as yours) is worth, I believe the "no buy-build-buy-build" is there as a clarification that you can only use each station once, and not build in the middle of the buying process from that station, not as a general overall rule. In the rules, it's sure gives the impression as a clarification of a rule, less than a rule itself.

As sure as I can be, I believe it's fully OK to first buy from one trade station, then build something, then go to another trade station and buy, and then build something else, as long as you don't use the same station twice. The reason I believe so is as stated above, that if the intended rule is "you can only make one trip to your bunch of trade stations", it would be so much easier to simply state that: "You may only make one trip to your trade stations, at which point you can buy from/sell to a maximum of TWO of them". Of course, assuming a rule should be interpreted in a certain way just because it probably would be formulated in another way if it was the other interpretation, is a weak assumption just in itself, but considering it's Teuber and Kosmos, I think it's a pretty safe bet.

So your example would be perfectly legal, I think. Go to one trade station, buy a resource, build trade module level I, buy a resource off your opponent to buy a level II, sure. The fact that the modules are separate from the planets on the initial die roll too (on a roll of 2, you get only from 1 of your '2'-colonies, but you always get the science/trade goods if you have the module(s)) makes that theory even more plausible, so I think it's a safe assumption:

You can use up to 2 trade stations and your trading module, during your buy/build phase, but only one time each, and no building in the middle of the buying process.

Of course, I guess one could always pose this question directly to Kosmos.
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Yes, that looks and sounds right.
After all a player doesn't buy a new module, just upgrade the old one...

Aubigny wrote:
There's a question in the official Geman FAQ: http://www.siedeln.de/faq/15_1184_de.html which can help us here.

Quick translation of the question:

Quote:
May I use the Trading Module I and II in the same turn?

If I own the Trading Module I, once a turn I can buy a resource from my enemy for 2 Astro. If I now build Trading Modulde II can I now buy another 2 resources from my enemy in the same turn?


The answer to the question from the FAQ is: No, you can't use it two times, because after all it's the same module (only upgraded). There is no clue in the answer that you can't use it because you just built the module (upgrade).

This makes me believe two things:
1. You can use the Trading module in the same turn you have built it.
2. You can use the Trading module I and then upgrade it in the same turn.
 
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