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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Urban Melee and Map 30 Questions rss

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David Lanphear
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Played Sceanrio 36:SEA DEVILS today. I was the Germans.

Urban Melee-So I advanced on poor Ivan in my previous turn. Ivan was so stunned by my presence that he did nothing in the hex. He quite possibly might of just discarded and drew. Anyway it comes back to me and BAMM we go to resolve the melee at the beginning of my turn. Ivan is the inactive player but he has no ambush cards, alas poor Ivan. I have a few and play them (these are actions). We then resolve the melee. Ivan no more.

Since no orders have been played by me, can I now discard and refill my hand?

We (both of us) thought yes.


The Factory: On Map 30 you have that big grey mass contiguous to a thin brown structure running through hexes J4-J5-J6 (See picture). Is the brown structure a part of the factory? We thought Yes.

If so, does that mean the structure in K4-K5-K6 is also a part of the factory because it is connected by the thin grey connection running along the hex spine between J4-J5? We weren't sure.


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Richard Pardoe
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StocktonDave wrote:
Since no orders have been played by me, can I now discard and refill my hand?

Yep. After the melee, you continue with your turn. Either play orders, or pass (discard if desired) and draw cards to refill your hand.

StocktonDave wrote:
If so, does that mean the structure in K4-K5-K6 is also a part of the factory because it is connected by the thin grey connection running along the hex spine between J4-J5? We weren't sure.


Yes, based on the actual architecture of the Grain Elevator (yes, I realize it is a scale model, but it is a clear photo.)

Based on the rules of the game, I would say yes also. The colour of a building has no bearing in CC, so the entire structure is one connected building depiction. Don't forget that Factory Hindrance only works if the LOS never leaves the actual confines of the factory, so one can shoot from I5 to K5, but not I5 to K6.
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Bryan Collars
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Richard, Great Picture!

I did a lot of research for Map 30. Its gratifying seeing that it translated so well into CC scale.
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David Lanphear
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RPardoe wrote:
Yes, based on the actual architecture of the Grain Elevator (yes, I realize it is a scale model, but it is a clear photo.)

Based on the rules of the game, I would say yes also. The colour of a building has no bearing in CC, so the entire structure is one connected building depiction. Don't forget that Factory Hindrance only works if the LOS never leaves the actual confines of the factory, so one can shoot from I5 to K5, but not I5 to K6.


Nice picture Richard. Are these your models? Bringing them to GMT West?

We discussed the possibility of shooting down that corridor as well in our game. But since we were not sure of the connection I didn't take the one chance I was given. Now that one knows the actual structure of the building though (it looks like a raised walkway or conveyor system), one could argue that they are two buildings. At least at ground level. (?) Interesting situation.

And to you Bryan, very nice scenario, it was touch and go for both players right up to the end. but I must say that the IG18 can't hit the broad side of a factory.

Plus I had another hero meet his fate on Soviet soil, rushing into melee with three ambushes against a SMG and that Russian 2 leader. Unfortunately they were waiting for Dieter with a couple ambushes as well. surprise
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Chadwik
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Just to confirm:

Quote:
Since no orders have been played by me, can I now discard and refill my hand?

Yes.

Quote:
Is the brown structure a part of the factory?

Yes.

Quote:
does that mean the structure in K4-K5-K6 is also a part of the factory because it is connected by the thin grey connection?

Yes.
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Mark Evans
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That is a beautiful job making the Grain Elevator. Would you mind if I posted this photo to the ASL section of BGG? ASL has a historical map of the grain elevator.
 
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Richard Pardoe
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I didn't make the model - it is one I found on the web googling for Grain Elevator Stalingrad. If you look at the manual on the lower left, I believe this is a TimeCast model. The image above is hot linked, so I don't see any reason not to use the same link within ASL.
 
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Mark Evans
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Thanks Richard. I thought you had made that.
 
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Ian Milnes
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I'm confused by the answers given!
I have Europe and Med, and I'm of the impression that melee happens straight after the advance order and not in the player's next turn. Has there been a change?

I have rules versions 1.1

regards

Ian
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Richard Pardoe
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There are special (Urban) Melee rules as part of the Stalingrad Battlepack. The references here are to a battle which uses these rules.

Normal Melee is as you played it.

The key difference for Urban Melee is that it is a delayed occurance that happens at the start of the Axis turn. This means that if the Axis players enters an Allied hex to initiate Melee, the Allied player has a turn to (1) advance more units into the potential melee or (2) advance or move units out of melee or some combination. This same sort of melee is used in CCacific where the Melee occurs at the start of the Allied turn - allowing the Japanese the same advantages.
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Ian Milnes
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Ahh . . . thanks.

phew!

regards

Ian
 
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Mark J
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Just played my first SSR game. With the ST7 melee rule I'm wondering if after conducting the melee the axis player can then activate his surviving melee units for an order?

Unrelated but I'll just add it here: in this game I had a new situation occur. I activated a fire team with adjacent units and had them fire in two different groups. During the first groups volley a blaze appeared in the hex with my other group. I then moved them to an adjacent hex. Since they were no longer adjacent to the units currently firing I wasn't sure if I could still fire with them. I did have another fire card but wasn't sure if technically they already had been activated, even though they weren't able to perform it.
 
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Richard Pardoe
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DiploGuy wrote:
I'm wondering if after conducting the melee the axis player can then activate his surviving melee units for an order?

As in the basic game, no units are activated when conducting melee. So, yes.

Quote:
Since they were no longer adjacent to the units currently firing I wasn't sure if I could still fire with them.

They are still activated to fire until you play your next order. Getting displaced by a blaze does not impact the unit's status (other than its location). The fire group might be adjusted due to non-adjacency, but you could still fire any and all activated units with range and LOS to a target hex.
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