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Brass: Lancashire» Forums » Rules

Subject: question about replacing opponents mining industries rss

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Nikos Kalfin
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The manual sais that you can also replace an opponent's Coal mine or Iron mine with one of yours.

Can somebody explain under which conditions (circumstances) may this happen?

The sure thing is that your industry must have higher level than opponent's

There is also a second condition. What is this?

Thanks in advance!
Nick

 
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Carlos Ferreira
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You can only replace one of your opponent industries if there is no Coal or Iron on the Market/Demand Track.
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AlexL
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And of course you must have the card to build in that location (or do a double-card action).

A more informal rule is that you are entitled to laugh evilly while flicking your opponent's laughably outdated industry tile from the board. Sadly there's no option for this on the on-line version.
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Nikos Kalfin
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brainst0rm wrote:
You can only replace one of your opponent industries if there is no Coal or Iron on the Market/Demand Track.



You can only replace one of your opponent industries if there is no Coal or Iron on the Market/Demand Track OR when there are no cubes on the Board (which happens quite often in my opinion)

Is this correct ? can someone check?
 
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Carlos Ferreira
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ektorakos wrote:
brainst0rm wrote:
You can only replace one of your opponent industries if there is no Coal or Iron on the Market/Demand Track.



You can only replace one of your opponent industries if there is no Coal or Iron on the Market/Demand Track OR when there are no cubes on the Board (which happens quite often in my opinion)

Is this correct ? can someone check?


Nope. If there are no cubes on the board, but they exist on the Demand track you CANNOT replace your opponent industries. You can always replace your own industries.
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Brandon Ketchum
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Wrong. The only way to replace an opponent's coal mine is if the coal track is empty, and the only way to replace an opponent's iron works is if the iron track is empty. That's it. You of course must also have the appropriate card.
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Edward Kendrick
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A further note. This is NOT in the rules, but in correspondence with Martin Wallace he said he would have put it in if he'd thought of it. So you can decide whether you want to abide by it:

You can't overbuild an opponent's coal mine if there is a vacant coal mine site in the same town.

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Maciej Welc
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You can replace an opponent's coal mine/iron works when:
1) there is no coal/iron available on the demand track (to put it another coal/iron price is 5),
2) you can fulfill other industry upgrade conditions (ie.: industry tech level higher than already built, appropriate card - or 2 card super action - played, construction cost paid, construction resources delivered - could require connection to port to deliver coal).

PS
I can imagine situation where the coal price is 5 while there is a separated (ie. not connected) coal mine full of coal on the board. The replacement still is allowable AFAIR.
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Nikos Kalfin
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Thank you all!
 
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Maciej Welc
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Barbarossa wrote:
You can't overbuild an opponent's coal mine if there is a vacant coal mine site in the same town.

Interesting. AFAIR would not apply to any game we had, but stil interesting.
 
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Tim Schwarz
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macike wrote:

PS
I can imagine situation where the coal price is 5 while there is a separated (ie. not connected) coal mine full of coal on the board. The replacement still is allowable AFAIR.


I believe the overbuilding rules require that there be no coal in Lancanshire in addition to none on the track. So in your hypothetical, coal overbuilding would not be permitted.
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Nikos Kalfin
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Talltim wrote:
macike wrote:

PS
I can imagine situation where the coal price is 5 while there is a separated (ie. not connected) coal mine full of coal on the board. The replacement still is allowable AFAIR.


I believe the overbuilding rules require that there be no coal in Lancanshire in addition to none on the track. So in your hypothetical, coal overbuilding would not be permitted.



in addition or OR

that is my problem.
 
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AlexL
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Talltim wrote:
macike wrote:

PS
I can imagine situation where the coal price is 5 while there is a separated (ie. not connected) coal mine full of coal on the board. The replacement still is allowable AFAIR.


I believe the overbuilding rules require that there be no coal in Lancanshire in addition to none on the track. So in your hypothetical, coal overbuilding would not be permitted.

Absolutely correct: to quote the rules:

Quote:
Building over Industry counters
...
You can build on top of another player’s coal mine with one of your
own only if there are no coal cubes in Lancashire or on the Coal
Demand track. Your coal mine must have a higher Tech Level then the
one you are replacing.

The above rule applies to iron works, you can replace one if there are
no iron cubes left in Lancashire or on the Demand track.


Rules here: http://www.warfroggames.com/images/rules_eng.pdf

Edit: bless the English language, this is one of those occasions when "or" means "and".
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Maciej Welc
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Talltim wrote:
macike wrote:

PS
I can imagine situation where the coal price is 5 while there is a separated (ie. not connected) coal mine full of coal on the board. The replacement still is allowable AFAIR.


I believe the overbuilding rules require that there be no coal in Lancanshire in addition to none on the track. So in your hypothetical, coal overbuilding would not be permitted.

I checked the [Polish translation at least] rulebook - indeed rules state that if there is some coal/iron in Lancanshire the overbuilding is prohibited not permitted.
 
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Nikos Kalfin
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Ok . I just read the official rules.

"You can build on top of another player's coal mine with one of your own if there are no cubes in Lancashire OR on the coal demand track." Same is for Iron.

What I understand is the following.

A) If there is no coal in Lancashire (the map) I can replace an opponent's industry even if the demand track is not empty.

B) If there is no coal in the coal demand track I can replace an opponent's industry even if there are cubes in Lancashire (which in turn means that the situation that somebody looses the industry along with the cubes on it actually exists)

Who can help.
 
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Nikos Kalfin
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AlexL wrote:


Edit: bless the English language, this is one of those occasions when "or" means "and".



What ?? And how can you tell the difference?
 
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Maciej Welc
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As mentioned above: A)
 
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AlexL
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The way it should have been expressed: if you want to overbuild an opponent's coal mine, there must be no coal in Lancashire and no coal on the demand track.

[It is a valid sentence construction in English: "I went to buy teabags but there were in none in Sainsbury's or Tesco's" means both shops were out of teabags.]
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Nikos Kalfin
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Bless the Greek language!

Ok that settles it then!

 
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Jason Gische
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macike wrote:
As mentioned above: A)


As has been pointed out, this is incorrect.

AlexL wrote:
The way it should have been expressed: if you want to overbuild an opponent's coal mine, there must be no coal in Lancashire and no coal on the demand track.


This is correct.
 
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Steve Duff
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Trust the teabag metaphor. thumbsup
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Richard Young
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A more precise but less used construction would have been to say "...when there are neither cubes in Lancashire nor on the demand track."

One of the posters made it look like there had to be a complete scarcity of both Iron and Coal to be able to upgrade either type factories with one of your own (or that's me speed reading again). I'm sure we all realize that it is the specific commodity in question depending on which type of factory is being considered. Probably would be difficult if not impossible otherwise.
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Randall Bart
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Clearer would be

"when there ain't no coal cubes on the board no how, neither in Lancashire nor on the Coal track."
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Martin Wallace
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Just to confirm previous posts, you can over build when there are no cubes on the map AND no cubes on the demand display.

Martin
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Nico Dehove
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Sorry, old thread but interesting information for those who were confused like me :

While I agree the english rules are a bit ambiguous, the french (my native language) rules are crystal clear, in a bad way :
You can overbuild an opponent's coal mine/iron works either if there are no coal/iron cubes on the demand track, or if there are no coal/iron cubes left in lancashire.

(for those who dig french : [...] soit aucun cube de charbon/fer dans le lancashire, soit aucun cube de charbon/fer sur la piste de demande.)

From what I just read it appears the french translation is erroneous, at least in my version of the game (bought in 2007).

Bye,
Nico
 
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