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Subject: Hopefully easy to answer questions rss

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Neil Martin
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I recently managed to find a copy of flat top and an opponent who actually wants to play it! Im only 23 and my war gaming experience is limited to memoir '44 so the rules are quite formidable to me as i have read nothing comparable in complexity.

With that said i think i understand the majority of what is going on my questions are hopefully quick and easy to answer:

1) When rolling for the clouds what happens if you roll the same number? i.e roll to 5s to have two clouds sitting on top of each other, do you re roll?

2)Air Formations, from what i understand when you set up an air formation you put its counter you put it strait onto the board where it takes off, is this correct? the reason i as is this seems like it would give away the position of a TF once its planes are launched,

Thank you for any help.
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Kevin Roach
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Brandon
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I can only go from memory, so I'm not 100 % sure. But if i recall, Clouds that overlap, whenever they move. the overlaps area is considered a squall or storm. (good place to hide a fleet)

As for the second question, I recall that you may place it on the board after it has moved, but only using half its movements points. this allows a general idea of starting location, but it is not a 100% giveaway. and if there are no enemy units near, by time they get there the target will have moved.

IIRC

perhaps others can confirm this. I am going from the Battleline version.
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Doug Mann
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Don't have the rules handy on clouds/squalls. As I recall, where cloud hexes overlap, that hex is considered a storm hex. It seems unlikely that the whole area would be one big storm, but maybe someone with the rule book can answer.

As for placing air groups, you need not put the AG marker on the map for your opponent to see until the last hex reached in its first movement phase. Generally, that will give you 1/2 its movement factor uncertainty. Once you get a handle on the rules, the umpired game is highly recommended. It's really a blast & eliminates your opponent seeing where air groups start.
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Neil Martin
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Thanks for the quick replys! that's pretty much what i thought regarding the 2nd question.

Im not sure i worded my 1st question as well as i could have:

What i meant was when you 1st roll for clouds before the game starts say you roll a 5 in section 1 so you put the cloud marker 5 hexes away from the number 5, what happens if on one of the next 3 cloud rolls i roll another 5? does it go on top of the other one? ignored? or a re roll?

Hope thats clearer.

Again thanks for the replys.
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Malcolm Cameron
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From memory, there is nothing to prevent more than one cloud marker being placed in the same hex. If that happens, you will have an instant storm (because the two cloud patterns will completely overlap).

As to air formations being placed on board, my memory of the Avalon Hill rules is that hidden movement, plotted on plotting maps, is legal for air formations as well as for task forces.

Often you will opt for non hidden AF movement (on board) to allow spotting by those AF.

It is also quite common for off board AF to be revealed as they fly over, or near, land because of coastwatchers or radar.

(Treat this answer with caution - I have not played in a number of years). Enjoy the game.
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Neil Martin
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Thanks Malcolm, that's how we had played it where we treated air formations like TF's, plotting movement on the plot map until spotted etc.It was only while reading the rules through a few times that it seemed to give the impression that this isn't how they worked.

It also made the plot map quite messy after a few turns! especially around bases, i think the above posters have it right where you place them in the last hex of their move.



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Malcolm Cameron
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Neil,

I am not sure if there are differences between the AH version (which I have) and other versions.

Your post, and some of the other posts above, prompted me to pull out the rules. AH version rule 14.7 says "An Air Formation may be moved on the mapboard or on the Log Sheet. If moving on the Log Sheet, use the same procedure used for TFs moving on the Log Sheet."

14.2.3 contemplates moving (among others) "Air Formations that are not currently on the mapboard and will not be on the mapboard at the end of the turn".

So I think you can keep your AFs hidden, subject to the normal rules about observation by radar, coast watchers, other aircraft and ships.

I would be interested to know if this is a rule difference between the different editions (and if I have misunderstood the AH rules I would be glad to be corrected).

Regards

Malcolm C
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Doug Mann
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Quote:
I would be interested to know if this is a rule difference between the different editions (and if I have misunderstood the AH rules I would be glad to be corrected).


Battleline rulebook (copyright 1977), Rule IX.A. All Air Formation units are moved on the mapboard; never marked on the Plot Map.

Subsection E.1. states, "On turns that an Air Formation unit lands or takes off, it does not have to be moved across the mapboard hex grid. It may simply be removed from the mapboard when landing, or simply be placed on the mapboard when taking off. This prevents the disclosure of the exact Base or Task Force it is landing or taking off from.

When combined with the Advance Plane Movement rule on minimum launch factors, you may well be moving recon planes their full move "off map" under the Battleline rule.

As to clouds, I can see how a Scattered Cloud set-up might duplicate rolls, and the Battleline rule says nothing about rerolling, so the whole formation (5 hex diameter) would be a Storm under Advanced Rule XI.B.4. If your opponent agrees, you could reroll the direction roll.
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Neil Martin
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Thanks Doug and Malcolm

That has clarified it to my and my opponents satisfaction on both points, we shall be picking this up again Friday so i may have some more questions after the weekend!!

For the record we are playing with the Avalon hill edition.
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Mike Hoyt

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I think the other posters have givenyou a prettygood set of answers. One point of clarification, if you move the AF via secret plotting (instead of on the board) then it can't itself search for anything. That may seem obvious, but worth stating.
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Neil Martin
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blockhead wrote:
I think the other posters have givenyou a prettygood set of answers. One point of clarification, if you move the AF via secret plotting (instead of on the board) then it can't itself search for anything. That may seem obvious, but worth stating.


Thats how we were playing it, but from the wording of some of the rules it seemed to be that AF was always on the board, this didn't seem right to me so i wanted to clarify.

Thanks to all!
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Lane Taylor
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I would also recommend downloading the rules errata files, and the optional rules at webgrognards.

http://www.grognard.com/titlef.html

I like the rule variant of rolling once for direction and once for distance when using clouds. I actually use a d6 for direction and a d8 for distance when the scenario calls for scattered clouds.

Otherwise, overlapping cloud hexes count as a storm, and it is possible to have to cloud markers in the same area and have a large storm. I would re-roll subsequent clouds that land on the same area, but that's not really covered in the rules.
 
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