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Subject: FFG Answers on BL rss

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William Gaskill
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Here it is:

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1122

OD
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John Earles
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>> Reprinting the core game "as is," would essentially result in a near $150 retail price point, which is obviously unacceptable.

surprise
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Wow, that was an interesting article. Sounds like bad news for Battlelore. If they can't manufacture more copies of the base game that kind of kills future expansions since your fanbase will dwindle instead of increase. I find it interesting they can't afford to manufacture the game in the current format. It didn't look that bad. But then FFG doesn't do plastic inserts or pre-punched components.

Reading between the lines seems to imply that they wanted the name more then the product. The new game doesn't use the Battlelore system, just the name. Odd.
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Adam Clausing
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So I gather try won't try and reprint the base game as it stands today.
Maybe they would break it up in 2 or 3 pieces to bring the price down?
They could have the goblins and dwarves typically found in the base game in a separate expansion.

If anyone is considering getting into Battlelore, it may be a good idea to pick up the base game as it stands today for a cheap price compared to what Fantasy Flight may be releasing in the near future.
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Andy Van Zandt
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well, obviously the cards, board, dice, and books are the integral parts of the core game, and those aren't where the issue is. so if you slim down the scenario book to include a narrower troop requisite (both in quantity and type), you can get a "core set" out there with far fewer minis that the current one.

they could even (though this seems less likely, since FFG is known for nice bits) issue the core set without mini's (using counter sheets instead, for example) and have separate army boxes (box of the english army, box of goblins, box of french, etc.)
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Giles Pritchard
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Well, this is a little disappointing I guess. My vain hope is that FFG decide to pursue several 'Battlelore Games' like this Westeros one - for I would certainly pick up one centered on Middle Earth!

Cheers,

Giles.
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Professor of Pain
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This may indeed suck for Battlelore itself, but I have to say, as a huge SOIAF fan, I'm excited and will definitely consider buying Battles of Westeros!
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John Stonebraker

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I would think you could maintain the same "set" and all and simply cut the number of figures down by making each unit a flagbearer with health tokens. I personally have thought about playing that way many times just to cut down on game setup. Having 4 figures on the map isn't really necessary.
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Shawn Kehoe
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caradoc wrote:
Well, this is a little disappointing I guess. My vain hope is that FFG decide to pursue several 'Battlelore Games' like this Westeros one - for I would certainly pick up one centered on Middle Earth!


Giles,

Given the following quote
CP: We acquired BattleLore to be our core brand for medieval tactical warfare games (in the scale represented in the classic BattleLore game). The BattleLore name is not necessarily tied to Richard’s “Command and Colors” system.

I'd say that Middle-Earth and Conan games are distinct possibilities.
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Seth Owen
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Crossposted from my game blog at http://pawnderings.blogspot.com

This interview on FFG's site clarifies a lot about the company's plans for Battlelore and what the Battle of Westeros game means to the franchise.

A couple of takeaways:

"We acquired BattleLore to be our core brand for medieval tactical warfare games (in the scale represented in the classic BattleLore game). The BattleLore name is not necessarily tied to Richard’s 'Command and Colors' system."

So basically BattleLore is being treated similar to the way Hasbro is treating Axis & Allies -- as a brand that is not necessarily associated with a particular game system. I'm glad we've cleared that up.


This, set against the overall backdrop of an already steeply escalating cost in game manufacturing, has made the core game a serious issue. Reprinting the core game 'as is,' would essentially result in a near $150 retail price point, which is obviously unacceptable.

and

We were concerned that the classic BattleLore base game, as had been created by Days of Wonder ('DOW'), was going to be troublesome on a production level. We did not, to be honest, expect it to essentially be non-manufacturable, as is the case.

This is much more serious as it basically means any future "base sets" for Battlelore will be much less attractive to new players. There was an awful lot in that box. Hasbro has similarly had to retreat a bit on the initial high-value Master Set for Heroscape, but being a bigger company they probably had more room to work with on costs.

Despite FFG's promises to support Battlelore, I'd say that the game's long-term prospects have dimmed. I think this also has implications for any other game products that have relied on the availability of cheap plastic figures from China.
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Todd Rewoldt
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crnzqpty wrote:
I would think you could maintain the same "set" and all and simply cut the number of figures down by making each unit a flagbearer with health tokens. I personally have thought about playing that way many times just to cut down on game setup. Having 4 figures on the map isn't really necessary.


If supporting the "game" of BattleLore is the mission of FFG, there are plenty of workarounds along these lines to keep the game humming along. I can't believe that the price of plastic is the sole reason for letting BattleLore fade while introducing other high-plastic content games in its stead is the plan.
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When BattleLore appeared in 2006, it retailed for, I think $60. I knew, when I opened that box, that a lot of love had gone into it and that it was a loss-leader for a much larger system.

It wasn't just the minis that would make it cost a lot in today's economy. A lot of hand labor went into it, too. All the counters were punched and bundled. All the flag-bearers were already stickered.

There about three decks worth of cards: Battle Deck, Lore Deck, and Player Aids. Everything (rulebook, scenario book, and cards) were printed front and back in full color.

And people thought it cost a lot then! Since 2006, the dollar has taken a big hit. China and India compete with America and Europe for available petroleum for discretionary plastic products. $150 in today's dollars sounds about right. Possibly even higher!
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Mark Bigney
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Let me get this straight: they bought the rights to BattleLore primarily so they could label mechanically and thematically dissimilar games under the BattleLore brand? I know this happens all the time, but I doubt that the BattleLore brand is that strong.
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Giles Pritchard
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Shawn_Kehoe wrote:
caradoc wrote:
Well, this is a little disappointing I guess. My vain hope is that FFG decide to pursue several 'Battlelore Games' like this Westeros one - for I would certainly pick up one centered on Middle Earth!


Giles,

Given the following quote
CP: We acquired BattleLore to be our core brand for medieval tactical warfare games (in the scale represented in the classic BattleLore game). The BattleLore name is not necessarily tied to Richard’s “Command and Colors” system.

I'd say that Middle-Earth and Conan games are distinct possibilities.


I agree, and I hold out hope! It would be cool to have a Middle Earth set, and it would be extra cool to have expansions taking the game to other time-frames within that setting - say The Last Alliance, the Silmarillion, etc. That would be awesome! I may fall into a series of unstoppable conniptions if that happened.

Cheers,

Giles.
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Sean Dooley
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I think this may be the first time I'd be giving FFG a thumbs down. I think this is really unfortunate for the BattleLore line, and my hopes are no longer where they once were.

I don't have any previous stake in the GRRM IP, so Battle for Westeros doesn't do anything for me as a casual fan. In fact, if anything it turns me off a bit from it. I can't help but think this game will have a harder time pulling in the uninitiated than a "generic" fantasy game like BattleLore would. I don't know who the Lancasters or whatever their name is, but I certainly know dwarfs and goblins.

I guess FFG has to do what they have to do, but, again, this is the first time I've ever had to give them a firm yuk.
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Shawn Kehoe
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caradoc wrote:
Shawn_Kehoe wrote:
caradoc wrote:
Well, this is a little disappointing I guess. My vain hope is that FFG decide to pursue several 'Battlelore Games' like this Westeros one - for I would certainly pick up one centered on Middle Earth!


Giles,

Given the following quote
CP: We acquired BattleLore to be our core brand for medieval tactical warfare games (in the scale represented in the classic BattleLore game). The BattleLore name is not necessarily tied to Richard’s “Command and Colors” system.

I'd say that Middle-Earth and Conan games are distinct possibilities.


I agree, and I hold out hope! It would be cool to have a Middle Earth set, and it would be extra cool to have expansions taking the game to other time-frames within that setting - say The Last Alliance, the Silmarillion, etc. That would be awesome! I may fall into a series of unstoppable conniptions if that happened.

Cheers,

Giles.


I am under the impression that the Simarillion material doesn't get licensed out by the Tolkien estate very often. But I agree, a Middle-earth game offers lots of opportunities for expansion.
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Shawn Kehoe
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Some guesswork based upon this article:

1) The traditional BattleLore will be getting some kind of re-branding this year. "Commands & Colours: BattleLore" or something like that. The system and the brand are no longer synonymous.

2) A new BattleLore core set that can meet the $80-$100 price point. The perfect-bound rulebook will almost certainly go. The big question is whether FFG would choose to reduce the mini cost by lowering the quantities of the most common figures (blue infantry etc) or by reducing the diversity of figures.

3) I expect changes in the deployment deck system. Even with the promise of new decks for Goblins and Dwarves, the system felt too rigid and random to account for multiple expansions. Perhaps they will add a deck construction element similar to the Treachery mechanics in Descent. But at that point, why not use army lists and point builds?
 
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Chris Lewis
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I'm interested to see if Mr Borg is allowed to sell his own ideas as a pdf (parred down cards so no flash art work no minis etc) seeing how

"Having said that, I want to make a clarification on the expectations for BattleLore. Last year, Richard posted some ideas for “future releases” for BattleLore. Unfortunately, some fans took this post as canon, and are now expecting these specific releases. I think it important to note that while they were well-intended ideas of Richard’s, they did not fall in line with FFG’s vision. What we’re working on with Richard currently has no relation to anything in that old post, but something entirely new and different."

If FFG aren't following up on any of Mr Bs ideas perhaps they could be released as Command & Colours Torks etc hey we could even get the full blown Lore deck that has been hinted at existing (in response somewhere to the dreaded three debates)

Chris
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Deano Ware
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Well as somone who owns Battlelore and thought it was o.k. I haven't bought an expansion since the Hundred Years Wars. The heroes and monster don't really do that much for me. I know little or nothing about GRRM but have always been intrigued and looking for an entry point into the mythos, Battles for Westeros will certainly do that for me. The sculpts are fantasic and I look forward to exploring the different fighting styles and capabilities of the various houses. So I have to disagree with the person who said non-GRRM fans wouldn't be attracted to Battles for Westeros.
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Todd Rewoldt
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Shawn_Kehoe wrote:

3) I expect changes in the deployment deck system. Even with the promise of new decks for Goblins and Dwarves, the system felt too rigid and random to account for multiple expansions. Perhaps they will add a deck construction element similar to the Treachery mechanics in Descent. But at that point, why not use army lists and point builds?


As the game stands now, a full set each of human, dwarven, and goblin armies exist. Basing CtA decks around them would work wonderfully. Won't work if the plan is to continually release "specialists" to those armies, but that is a problem I wouldn't mind having.
 
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Ryan Morgan
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Quote:
1) The traditional BattleLore will be getting some kind of re-branding this year. "Commands & Colours: BattleLore" or something like that. The system and the brand are no longer synonymous.


What's left, though? its not like they're using the same back story or even the same character designs.

"Its just like an apple accept it tastes like an orange!" shake

Quote:
2) A new BattleLore core set that can meet the $80-$100 price point. The perfect-bound rulebook will almost certainly go. The big question is whether FFG would choose to reduce the mini cost by lowering the quantities of the most common figures (blue infantry etc) or by reducing the diversity of figures.


Maybe a super cool spacehulky edition instead?

Battlelore Master Edition or some such. It could justify the price point.
 
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Seth Owen
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As long as the dragons come out, I'll be satisfied.
 
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I'm wondering if the new battle lore systems are going to now use CARDS instead of dice...

devil

That seems to be the way recent FFG games have gone...


I actually think the new "Battlelore" based game could be interesting, and look forward to it. The biggest turn off for me ironically is the GRRM theme, but if integrated correctly, it could actually turn into a game with a stronger medieval warfare them then Battle Lore.

I personally would like a game with a STRONG medieval warfare feel, and though Battle lore touched on it, obviously some of the Lore ideas (goblins for example) added a stronger fantasy element than medieval.

It should be interesting to see how the game develops...as well as what plans they have for Battlelore.

Perhaps a reduction of the scenarios in the core box, with a reduction of units, and make them out of the harder plastic FFG has been using, as well as reducing them in size to about half the size or smaller, similar on scale to the size that they have made some of the plastic minis in their recent releases.

Battle cry had smaller pieces itself, and I beleive far less pieces, and I think could be a good example of which direction to turn with Battlelore. I obviously don't know what will happen, that's just an idea on my part.
 
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Well, I'm glad that the monsters finally came out before this died.
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Sean Dooley
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dcware wrote:
Well as somone who owns Battlelore and thought it was o.k. I haven't bought an expansion since the Hundred Years Wars. The heroes and monster don't really do that much for me. I know little or nothing about GRRM but have always been intrigued and looking for an entry point into the mythos, Battles for Westeros will certainly do that for me. The sculpts are fantasic and I look forward to exploring the different fighting styles and capabilities of the various houses. So I have to disagree with the person who said non-GRRM fans wouldn't be attracted to Battles for Westeros.


Dude, you say right here you were already intrigued by the GRRM stuff. That doesn't make you "casual gamer" I was referring to.

I hold fast to the notion that generic fantasy is more likely to draw "casual gamer" in than the Martin stuff is; again, everyone can relate with Dwarfs and Goblins; if you mentioned Stark to someone, chances are they're thinking Iron Man before A Game of Thrones.
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