Josh Gaudreau
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Hey all,

I'm making a game based in the fantasy genre, and need some help when it comes to the melee fighting.

Basically, this is what I have so far. There are four races, each with different stats; humans, orcs, dwarves and goblins.

Humans are the median race, so they have

Units: 5
Movement: 5
Attack: 5

Units and Movement are variable stats, but will never go above the initial number (in this case 5) The Attack is fixed.

What does this mean? There is a party of 5 humans walking around. They can move 5 spaces/turn. The attack is an arbitrary stat, to help balance the different races (like in Arkham Horror all the characters' stamina and sanity = 10).

When a fight occures I have the player roll a number of dice according to how many units are in the party. In this case with the humans, it's five dice.

The player takes the 5 dice and rolls them the number of times that equal their movement plus attack. So, in this example, the Human would roll 5 dice 10 times. That's a ridiculous amount of rolling!

So my question is, how can I lessen the number of times the dice are rolled, yet still have a fairly high number?

I've thought about using different types of dice, like d20's or d10's, but kind of want to stick with d6's. Is that realistic? Or should I think about non-standard dice like in HeroQuest?

I've thought about dropping the Attack stat and having only Units and Movemement to determine the number of dice used and rolled, but then I'd have to make all the races have the same base number. I don't want the game to be too complicated or require too much tracking for the player.

Any suggestions at all? I hope I gave enough information! Just ask if I didn't. Thanks!

Josh
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Cody Ferguson
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As someone who's penned a couple of ideas for simple fantasy games, here's my $0.02.

Why is movement factored in at all? Is the game played on a gameboard or grid or anything? To me, it would make a lot more sense adding an additional fixed 'defense' stat that you have to roll above with your 5 dice.

For example, if the dude you're attacking has a defense of 3, you would need to roll a 4+ to score a hit. So if 3/5 dice roll 4+, that's 3 hits.

The defense stat could be an ambiguity of armour and agility, and you could add a +1 bonus for things like cover.

If you're doing party vs. party combat it might be worth looking at how Lord of the Rings by Games Workshop resolves combat. I always thought that game had a rather eloquent way of melee or ranged combat that works great with a handful or a ton of units with simple stats.
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Josh Gaudreau
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Thanks for the reply!

I should have specified, it is a board game, not a RPG. Movement is a factor because as the parties pick up stuff it lowers the amount of spaces they can move per turn, and in my mind if someone in the party is carrying something like logs then he can't wield a sword.

It'll be built on a board with hexes (to allow more than 4 directional movement), and, in my mind anyway, will be somewhat like Arkham Horror or Timber Tom.

The defense stat idea is pretty good though, I'll have to consider it further.
 
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Daniel Sarasio Meyer
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A game that does something similar, IMO, is Battleball. In that game the different size backs roll different size dice. A d20 for example allows a player to move up to 20, but battle are won with low rolls so they are easily "tackled" by a big back rolling a d6. You could combine stats to make a trade off doing something similar. humans roll a d20 (fast but weak), orcs a d8 (strong and moderate), dwarves a d6 (strong and fast like a rock) and goblins a d12 (quick but unarmored).

Check the game out, it might give you a good idea or springboard you in a different direction.
Cheers,
Dan
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Josh Gaudreau
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Thanks, I'll have to check it out!

I'm not familiar with that game at all.

This gives me a lot more to think about...
 
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Kenneth Sheffield
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#1. I like the idea of a Defense stat

Now on to your question -

How about, roll just your number of:

ATTACK dice (- 1 if GROUP is < 50%) (-1 if MOVE < 50%)

Each roll above opponents DEFENSE scores a hit


This gives a penalty for weakened units but keeps existing units from being worthless.
 
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David Rauscher
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It's hard to answer without more information on what you're trying to simulate with the mechanic.

If it's simply an encumbrance mechanic, then it could be Attack dice = Attack total less encumbrance (so 10 minues some number). Or you could adjust success for hits: maybe it's a hit on a 4-6 unecumbered, but 5 or 6 encumbered.

I could think of a million permutations on dice rolling. Don't understand why the 10*5 is appropriate or even considered - it'll just average out anyway with that many dice. How's that different from just rolling 5 dice and hitting or missing? You could have also something like 4 = 3 hits, 5 = 2 hits, 6 = 1 hit to increase variety of outcomes with 5 dice rolls To take care of encumbrance, you could subtract dice, or add to difficulty of getting a hit, or adding to defenders defense (if any), etc., etc.

Edit: Here's another idea: Roll attack dice. Then, for each move remaining for the group, you could add 1 to an attack die (that is, create an incentive not to encumber people). Make this apply across group, so if 10 warriors, roll ten attack dice. If their move as a group is 4 (encumbered by -1), then after rolling they can add 4 to the various dice, e.g., if you hit on 6, and roll 1,2,2,2,3,4,4,5,5,6 you can take those 4 move for the group an turn one 4 into a 6, and 2 5's into a 6, for a total of four hits.
 
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Jeff Timothy
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How about you use 2 different coloured D6's. use one as 1's and one as 10's. As you might with rolling D10's to calculate percentile. Then add the movement + attack score as a modifier. In your example, that would be 15 for the humans.

So your base roll would be anywhere from 11 to 66 + 15.

You'd be reducing the highest roll possible but it would be quicker and easier to calculate. (and require fewer dice!)

Compared to your 5 x 10 rolls, which could be anywhere from 50 to 300.

Just a thought...

~Jeff.
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Josh Gaudreau
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JeffTimothy wrote:
How about you use 2 different coloured D6's. use one as 1's and one as 10's. As you might with rolling D10's to calculate percentile. Then add the movement + attack score as a modifier. In your example, that would be 15 for the humans.

So your base roll would be anywhere from 11 to 66 + 15.

You'd be reducing the highest roll possible but it would be quicker and easier to calculate. (and require fewer dice!)

Compared to your 5 x 10 rolls, which could be anywhere from 50 to 300.

Just a thought...

~Jeff.


This one seems to fit with the theme best so far. A simple solution, that I did not think of (it's my first attempt at a board game). I wasn't going for any sort of simulation when trying to come up with the fighting, just something that would be functional and fun, which it wasn't.

Though I'm going to consider the other ideas still, this idea works because the players will not only fight each other, but a board-controlled creature that will be way more powerful. The players might even have to team up to stop it.

This board has been great not just for learning about new games (which my wallet can't afford too much more of compared to the number of unplayed games I have), but for things like this too.

More news about the game to come as I get further into its development. After this and the board size, I'll be ready to start getting down to the nitty-gritty details.

Josh
 
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Kai Bettzieche
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Why not do it like this:

5 units = 5 dice
attack 5 = bonus of +5 for each die

a defending group has a certain value you need to exceed with one die+modifiers (e.g. 3+movement) like e.g. 8.

Now an attacking player rolls 2, 3, 4, 4, 5
Add +5 to each die, that's 7,8,9,9,10
That's 3 times a result of more than 8 = three hits = defending group strength is reduced by 3 units.
As simple as that ..
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Jeff Timothy
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Joshx wrote:


Though I'm going to consider the other ideas still, this idea works because the players will not only fight each other, but a board-controlled creature that will be way more powerful. The players might even have to team up to stop it.

Josh


The deciding factor for which method you use will be playtesting. You need to get your mechanic playtested by as many groups as you can. It's the only way you will really discover what works and what doesn't. Test many different ideas and take copious notes! Even when you think it's working well, over time if you re-test you will discover things that you didn't notice before.

Keep up the hard work! Have fun designing and playing.

~Jeff.
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Rick Medved
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movement should just be used for movement and not included in your attacks, that's what's complicating the issue for you. And if you have attack values that range from 2-5 needing that number or lower to hit, now you are only rolling 5 dice total, per round of battle.

that should simplify things ;)
 
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Mr Pavone
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GTD_Galatea wrote:


If you're doing party vs. party combat it might be worth looking at how Lord of the Rings by Games Workshop resolves combat. I always thought that game had a rather eloquent way of melee or ranged combat that works great with a handful or a ton of units with simple stats.


Check out Tunnels & Trolls, an old role playing game, for it's party vs. party combat rules. Simply put, each side adds up it's attack values, rolls that many d6 and adds bonuses called "adds". The higher total wins the round and the difference is spread amongst the losers as damage.

You could modify this system so each side adds up its attack values then adds only a couple dice in "adds". Say, one die for a mage, one for a magic weapon, one for high tactical skills. You get the idea.

Then I read the reply by Kai Bettzieche and it basically says everything I was trying to get at. I second his method!
 
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Michael Langer
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I'd like to point out o be careful about movement values in a game. If the human has a movement of 5, and the orc has a movement of 2 due to heavy gear, you're going to have some issues. Why? Either the human has to wait up for the orc, or he runs into the darkness alone, or the orc has to drop gear. None of those options are "ideal". If you're going to put in an encumbrance factor, at least have a base amount that players can carry without going into penalty, and make it higher for the melee races. (Most fantasy games tend to do this already; it makes sense and it works.)

That way your wizards aren't wearing heavy armor without penalties, and your fighters aren't forced to tow their gear around in a wheelbucket.
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Josh Gaudreau
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Thanks all for the continued ideas!

I haven't said too much about the game because I'm worried about people taking some of the basic ideas.

One thing I should mention is that the teams, or parties, are one unit. So, a party of 5 orcs is just 5 orcs. No fighters or wizards or whatnot. (Actually, in this game, they're more like the grunts from WOW. All the races are, actually.) They won't have to wait up for one another, and will in fact be represented by one token on the board. The reason it is a party and not just one orc has more to do with the theme of the game.

I appreciate all the suggestions, and will post more once I have more to post!

Josh
 
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Joe Mucchiello
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Joshx wrote:
I haven't said too much about the game because I'm worried about people taking some of the basic ideas.

And doing what with them? Ideas are meaningless and valueless. Everyone has ideas. Execution has value. Ever heard the phrase "genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration"? What does that say about ideas?
 
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Justin Tonelli
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I don't understand why movement and attack need to be combined. To me, it just complicates things. I would roll 5d6 + 5, that way you still have a fairly large number. Your movement could form the same function as initiative in most D&D style games.
 
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Chris NA
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Power = 1d6 + ATTACK
Party size does not add to attack, but if your party is larger you are allowed to reroll the dice once.


Quote:
I haven't said too much about the game because I'm worried about people taking some of the basic ideas.
It is futile expectation that people would be willing to steal dice based combat mechanics
 
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Matthew Calhoun
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why not just compute the probability distribution for your current system, and then fig out ways to use less dice to have the same or almost the same probability distribution?
 
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David Thornton
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JeffTimothy wrote:
How about you use 2 different coloured D6's. use one as 1's and one as 10's. As you might with rolling D10's to calculate percentile. Then add the movement + attack score as a modifier. In your example, that would be 15 for the humans.

So your base roll would be anywhere from 11 to 66 + 15.


~Jeff.


Actually your range would be
11-16
21-26
31-36
41-46
51-56
61-66
+ modifier...
 
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Michael Langer
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Maybe he's afraid they'll steal his dice? I know I've mysteriously lost a few of mine...
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