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Subject: Why is the reprint P500 going up so slowly? rss

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Joel K
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Taking a step back for a second, it's actually pretty astonishing that a long, 6 player wargame on a relatively obscure 16th century conflict could get produced at all....sell out its run...and actually garner enough favorable reaction to be reprinted. It's quite a testament to Mr. Beach's design.

This is just a really niche title, that's probably why it's so slow. If a game this good had tanks and a WWII theme, it'd probably be on its fifth printing by now.

I put in my preorder last spring.
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Martin
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DorianGray wrote:
Is this one of those games people just use other people's copies to play so they don't have to buy one themselves? Wow. Parasites.


That's a ridiculous statement.
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Joe Lott
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Parasites? What a foolish thing to say.
I encourage gaming groups to only buy 1 copy of a given game.
As long as some one has it you can play!
 
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Chester
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This game gets most of its play online PBEM. While its not mandatory that each player have a copy logistically, that's the honor code. In this case, I think its the proliferation of online play that is spurring the interest higher. I know I had given my copy away and had to re-acquire one after getting involved in a PBEM game.

I agree with the above posters that its pretty remarkable that a game with these constraints (6 players, very long, about the Protestant reformation) gets a reprint at all. Especially with the hotly anticipated sequel in the works.
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Jason Johns
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cornjob wrote:
This game gets most of its play online PBEM. While its not mandatory that each player have a copy logistically, that's the honor code. In this case, I think its the proliferation of online play that is spurring the interest higher. I know I had given my copy away and had to re-acquire one after getting involved in a PBEM game.


On the first part, I couldn't agree more. PBEM has revitalized war and strategy gaming. Ed Beach did a very smart thing, but marketing HIS this way. PBEM has driven interest in HIS.

However, I don't agree with the second part. IMO if SOMEONE has a copy of the game then it's legit to play on CB. If I go down to the gaming club, I don't expect everyone to bring a copy of the game I'm playing. I don't see the difference online.

(This fits my philosophy, as I'm usually the one with the game anyway.)
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Чебурашка, ты настоящий друг!
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cornjob wrote:
This game gets most of its play online PBEM. While its not mandatory that each player have a copy logistically, that's the honor code.


Doesn't GMT ask that at least one player owns the game (i.e. like in real life), rather than that every player owns the game?
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Philip Thomas
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Owning the game makes it much easier to check rules and card text during a PBEM game.

I wouldn't say its a niche 16th century conflict. The Reformation and associated struggles practically define 16th century Europe (and the game has some American things happening to). Its more that the 16th century is something of a niche area, at least for Americans.

Here in the UK, Henry VIII is the historical figure most often taught about to schoolchildren, apart from the obvious other one with the same first letter.
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Gus I
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Philip Thomas wrote:

Here in the UK, Henry VIII is the historical figure most often taught about to schoolchildren, apart from the obvious other one with the same first letter.



Not being a Brit you got me curious now... do tell
(In Holland Churchill, Disraeli, Gladston and Queen Vic featured prominently in our English history classes)
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Chester
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Salo sila wrote:
cornjob wrote:
This game gets most of its play online PBEM. While its not mandatory that each player have a copy logistically, that's the honor code.


Doesn't GMT ask that at least one player owns the game (i.e. like in real life), rather than that every player owns the game?

Yes I think you're correct. I over-stated it initially.
 
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Philip Thomas
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GuusI wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:

Here in the UK, Henry VIII is the historical figure most often taught about to schoolchildren, apart from the obvious other one with the same first letter.



Not being a Brit you got me curious now... do tell
(In Holland Churchill, Disraeli, Gladston and Queen Vic featured prominently in our English history classes)


Well, he's not actually a Brit. But Churchill is getting close. sauron

I was at university before I first studied Disraeli and Gladstone. Although I had read books about them earlier. If the nineteenth century is taught to English schoolchildren at all it tends to be the Industrial Revolution rather than high politics. The Tudors is the main focus though- my sister learnt about them in at least 3 of her school-years.

 
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William Bentley
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Dorian-
I too want my physical copy and understand your desire to spur others to get on the P500 list, but I think "parasites" is overly strong and will put off rather than convince people to shell out the bucks. If you play more than one game of HIS, I think you should be on the P500 list to compensate for the online access and support that is offered for free.
I got drawn into this game and PBEM by HIS and its excellent support and gaming community. I've been on the list for months and moderate a game for other noobs to do my part in supporting this game. While many people will enjoy HS by playing online, not everyone is going to purchase in the long run. Without the online access HIS would never have gained its current popularity.
 
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Gus I
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Ah-ha - for a minute I thought you meant Robin Hood or Henry V (of "Once more into the fridge" fame)

Yes he and the occupation were covered in great detail too. The focus was more on life during the occupation than a list of battles. It left a _huge_ impact. A series like "Allo, Allo" could not have been made in Holland in the '70s. I think mein kampf is still banned. (In a country where almost everything else seems to go)


We covered Gladstone and Disraeli in year 9. History seemed to zoom in on certain topics. Sun-Yat-Zen and Mao also featured prominently that year.

The most covered topic though was the 80 years war (aka the Dutch Revolt). Charles the V featured very prominently as did his son Philip II. Can't wait for Virgin Queen.


Back on topic - I think here I stand works really well as a pbem game perhaps better than ftf. It reminds me of playing diplomacy with 2 turns per week during uni days.
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Timothy Sullivan
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DorianGray wrote:
Is this one of those games people just use other people's copies to play so they don't have to buy one themselves? Wow. Parasites.


When I read this the first time, I took the term "parasite" as tongue-in-cheek. But now I'm not so sure.

Dorian, you can't be serious, right? If you are, I'm afraid I'll have to agree with the other posters.

All the best,

Tim

P.S. I pre-ordered HiS when it was on the P500, but it took me three years to actually get it to the table. I guess that makes me the "host" organism.
 
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Greg Forster
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I think a lot of the success of this game (besides the excellent marketing approach and the overall high quality of the gameplay experience) is because it serves two audiences at once, and both in a highly entrepreneurial way. On the one hand, you have a lot of really well done innovation in the game mechanics that draws in wargamers looking for something that stands out from the ordinary wargame. And on the other hand, the opportunity to play out the religious conflict of the Reformation as a serious, competitive game draws in a lot of non-wargamers. If someone had created a really good Reformation-themed Euro, you'd have got most of these same players.
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Чебурашка, ты настоящий друг!
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Philip Thomas wrote:

I was at university before I first studied Disraeli and Gladstone. Although I had read books about them earlier. If the nineteenth century is taught to English schoolchildren at all it tends to be the Industrial Revolution rather than high politics. The Tudors is the main focus though- my sister learnt about them in at least 3 of her school-years.


I did Disraeli and Gladstone at A-Level; in fact we did the whole period from Lord Liverpool to Gladstone's third term, mostly from the political point of view, mainly (but not exclusively) dealing with the industrial revolution in terms of how politics sought to legistlate for it.

I can't remember ever learning about the Tudors at school, except perhaps at junior school (I can certainly remember something on Henry VII, but I'm not sure if we did that in order to finish off the Wars of the Roses or in order to start the Tudors).

When I was studying history at university, we were told the most popular paper for "British" history was the early modern paper, but I think most people concentrated on the Stuarts rather than the Tudors.

So, I don't think you're statement holds true for every British schoolchild. (From what I've hear, these days it's all Hitler, and if you're lucky, a bit of Stalin).
 
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Чебурашка, ты настоящий друг!
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DorianGray wrote:
GET BACK ON TOPIC GENTLEMEN. :surprise:


Ah, the angry shouty man again.
 
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Jayson Smith
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*sigh*, just added my order. I want this game in the worst way, but not for $150. I guess I'll wait & see.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Salo sila wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:

I was at university before I first studied Disraeli and Gladstone. Although I had read books about them earlier. If the nineteenth century is taught to English schoolchildren at all it tends to be the Industrial Revolution rather than high politics. The Tudors is the main focus though- my sister learnt about them in at least 3 of her school-years.


I did Disraeli and Gladstone at A-Level; in fact we did the whole period from Lord Liverpool to Gladstone's third term, mostly from the political point of view, mainly (but not exclusively) dealing with the industrial revolution in terms of how politics sought to legistlate for it.

I can't remember ever learning about the Tudors at school, except perhaps at junior school (I can certainly remember something on Henry VII, but I'm not sure if we did that in order to finish off the Wars of the Roses or in order to start the Tudors).

When I was studying history at university, we were told the most popular paper for "British" history was the early modern paper, but I think most people concentrated on the Stuarts rather than the Tudors.

So, I don't think you're statement holds true for every British schoolchild. (From what I've hear, these days it's all Hitler, and if you're lucky, a bit of Stalin).


In my day it was also all Hitler (as I not-so-subtly hinted earlier) but I was tallking of the study of British history. To be fair, I did medieval history at A-level, 1066 and all that, so I might have missed some 19th century politics there.

The 18th century however seems absent even at university level...

Anyway back, on topic, does the new edition come with the 2 player expansion fitted? I might consider pre-ordering it for that...
 
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-=[Ran Over]=-
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DorianGray wrote:
Why is the reprint P500 going up so slowly?
GuusI wrote:
Can't wait for Virgin Queen.
'Nuff said.
 
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Russ Hewson
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I bought this...
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Philip Thomas wrote:
Anyway back, on topic, does the new edition come with the 2 player expansion fitted? I might consider pre-ordering it for that...


It does indeed -

http://www.gmtgames.com/p-248-here-i-stand.aspx

Just a link there for your pre-order

On your other point, my school history strongly featured Gladstone and Disraeli alongside the Industrial Revolution (with of course a large helping of World War I and to a slightly lesser extent 2). Was only upto GCSE level mind.
 
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Poul Soegaard
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Hmm saw a shrink wrapped copy of Here I stand at a local store for 50% off. Perhaps I should go pick it up and see if it could be sold/traded on (already had a copy a while back, but never got it played)
 
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