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Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel! – Kursk 1943» Forums » Rules

Subject: LOS and 2 other questions rss

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Aaron Gelb
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Do friendly and enemy units block los?

The other question #1:

I've only played a couple of other wargames, and this one is unique to me in the way you use action points.

However, it seems slightly (but not too) fiddly, with moving the point tracks, etc, but also the fact that each unit can only move 1 HEX per turn, it seems like the FF's, especially the larger ones, will move at a snails pace. And is there no "opportunity fire" or "sentry mode", say if a machine gunner in a house is sittin there, and a squad comes walking past it...or is it not needed since the way the units can only move 1 hex at a time, and initiative can be vied for?

The other wargames i've played your unit can move as many hexes as his movement would allow them to move.

Thoughts?

Question #2

How does the i go you go in this game differ to the reaction rules of the first game AtB? What could a player do in that game that you don't do anymore due to the new rules?

Thanks!

Thoughts?
 
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Chris K.
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Hi there!

Actually it doesn't really feel like "I-Go-U-Go" most of the time and has a lot more of a simultaneous feel to it.

In the old version of the rules one player would be pretty much using all of his activated unit's AP while the other one would react occasionally. Now both are doing it at the same time.

So before it was rather expensive to have your MG do a lot of interrupting fire on your opponents turn as you were using CAPs and Opportunity Actions for it. With the new rules you can just activate the MG and pretty much get a shot of for every hex moved and action taken by the opponent.

And Edit asked me to point out that units don't block line of sight.
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Kai von der Aa
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asgelb wrote:
Do friendly and enemy units block los?

No.

asgelb wrote:
...but also the fact that each unit can only move 1 HEX per turn, it seems like the FF's, especially the larger ones, will move at a snails pace. And is there no "opportunity fire" or "sentry mode", say if a machine gunner in a house is sittin there, and a squad comes walking past it...or is it not needed since the way the units can only move 1 hex at a time, and initiative can be vied for?

A fast tank or a truck on a street moves also a couple of hexes per move. But a slow vehicle or a squad moves one hex per move action. This is only because of the chance for the opponent to react to a move. So you can use a machine gun as a sentry of course: Just activate it also in your opponents turn while he is moving his units. Or use opportunity fire or command action points. You see, there are many ways to perform a sentry duty and firing at a moving unit also in your opponents turn.

And no, it don't feels like snails pace...because normally you just make your moves step by step (with just counting the spent action points in your mind, as your opponent will do) with just a little pause after every move to give your opponent the chance to cry for a stop because he wants to intervene right now. Then the active player should upgrade the remaining action points on the tracking sheet. For us it works very good and just with gamers new to the game we update the action point track sheet after every single action.

asgelb wrote:
How does the i go you go in this game differ to the reaction rules of the first game AtB? What could a player do in that game that you don't do anymore due to the new rules?

It's not a thing of a restriction with SoS, but with the SoS rule change you have enhanced possibility to react. With AtB while your opponents turn you can react only with an opportunity action of an unspent unit (afterwards the unit counts as spent) or use command action points (CAPs) to undertake any action with an spent or unspent unit (but command action points are rare). Beside the possibility of using CAPs or opportunity actions the inactive player couldn't activate a unit which was limited only to the active player. With SoS also the inactive player can react with activating a unit with action points to perform more than one single action (with opportunity actions) and avoiding to use rare CAPs for the actions. With this new possibility in SoS it feels sometimes like a "I go - you go". Even in close combat it feels more real than the "first all my units fire, than in your turn your remaining units fire". Also the importance of the initiative in a new round loose weight because of better chances to react.

It is very easy to use the slightly changed rule also with AtB because of a better flow.

I further recommend that you download the rules from the academy games website. There you will find the most answers also of your eventually upcoming questions.
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Quote:
The other wargames i've played your unit can move as many hexes as his movement would allow them to move.


It is exactly the same in CoH. The only difference is that due to the tactical scale (both in hex size and time scale) the designer has decided to divide up such a movement phase into smaller bits.

In C&C:Ancients a unit can move lets say 4 hexes. You move up to all 4 hexes once, your opponent sits and watches. In CoH, a unit has 7 action points, and each open hex movement costs 1 action point, woods 2 points. The unit can move 1 open hexes and then across 3 wood hexes until he has used up all action points and is done for this round.

The big difference: The splitting of movement into small action turns makes it possible to alternate with your opponent. Every hex you moved gives him the possibility to move himself, shoot or do anything else. This increases the feeling that you are playing some kind of real time strategy game. You do not really need "sentry mode" because everybody can basically act at any time. Plus, you need to decide where to spend your resources on. If you decide not to move or just move slowly, you have more time to do other things (spend your action points on other kind of actions like shooting, reorganizing, digging in, etc.). A more realistic approach in my opinion, at least at the scale we are talking about.
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Aaron Gelb
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ok, thanks! that all makes sense. I played the second scenario tonight and what you're all saying I can now see.

Its much more fair, and seemingly realistic for me to run at almost the same time as my opponent...not have to wait until he's moved half way across the village....real squads wouldn't just sit and wait. Theyd move or fire as soon as they saw the enemy.

This game is beautiful!

Quote:
n C&C:Ancients a unit can move lets say 4 hexes.


I still want to get C&C ancients...but not Memoir so much anymore. With this game and the others that will be coming out in the CoH series, I don't really see the need for Memoir...I mean, the rules in CoH are so intuitive and logical that I feel they can almost be taught just as easy as memoir, but it gives you so many more things to do, and so much control! And its even prettier!

Any of you have memoir that just sits on the shelf now that you have CoH? CoH fills so many niches for me, and scratches so many itches!
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I have sold Memoir '44 and Tide of Iron, because those two games touch the same topic (WW2 tactical scale) like CoH but with much less elegance. Those two games were originally intended as gateway games that I used when playing with wargame newbies. You say it yourself, CoH is not far beyond their complexity but offers a more realistic approach to simulating this war's battlefield tactics with much more flexibility. Last week-end I introduced my brother to the first firefight (he is absolute no boardgamer and has no idea about boardwargames) and he liked it a lot. It took me around 10 minutes to teach him the basic rules of the first section.

By the way, I also traded away my ASL starter kits. While the historical importance of ASL for wargamers is unquestionable, in my opinion it has become an outdated design. Long time it has been the best that the market could offer, but now are different times than 20 years ago, and current modern designs like CoH make a lightyear better job when it comes to compare the effort of gaming (rules handling, setup, new player introduction, component quality) with the simulative potential.

I still have the Commands&Colors:Ancients series because Borg's system seems appropriate for ancient battles, and it is simple enough that I can play it with my wife (who does not like modern combat like WW2). Actually I am thinking of selling Battlelore. Although it covers the medieval era, I am not too happy about its strong fantasy influence, and the medieval tactics are much too similar to C&CA to give it its own reason of existence.

Anyway, I am glad you like CoH, it is a great system with a bright future to come.
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Aaron Gelb
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well said!
 
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