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Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel! – Kursk 1943» Forums » Rules

Subject: Questions on bunker rss

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Udu Tont
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I am wondering whether I understand SoS rules correctly. A few questions:

1) A unit in a bunker in a forest hex is attacked in CC. What DM benefit the defender gets if any?

2) A unit stationed in a bunker must have the same facing as the bunker? True/false?

3) An enemy unit enters bunker's hex from bunker's rear. A unit stationed in a bunker can attack in CC before the enemy can enter the bunker (because entering the bunker is a separate 1 AP action) without leaving the bunker. True/false?

4) A unit stationed in a bunker can be destroyed (regardless whether the bunker is destroyed) by a rifle squad firing form 5 hexes away to the bunker's rear. Defenders cannot respond to fire (no LoS). True/false?

5) If 3 and/or 4 are "true" then what is the logic? Both from the viewpoint of gameplay and realism.

Thank you for your time and answers!

P.S. If 2-4 are true then it does not seem to make much sense to attack bunkers in CC. It would be much better to stay in the rear of a bunker and fire with +3 to the flank without fear of return fire.
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Mike M
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1. Both the bunker DM and the forest DM. See 18.0.

2. False. No rule restricts this. I've changed the facing of units in a bunker to the rear in preparation of moving out of it.

3. True.

4. True.

5. I'm not that familiar with real world bunker design so no idea. Were units inside really vulnerable to attacks at range from the rear? I'd be interested to hear.
 
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Kai von der Aa
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There are a lot of bunker types. I saw the bunkers from the westwall in normandy (or what artillery left of it) and there you have only the small open front for MGs or cannons. MG bunker are naturally not so big than the cannon bunkers, but both had metal doors in the rear and small openings in the doors or the walls beneath the small main entrance doors for small arms defence fire. Also if the metal doors are opened or blown away, the architects ensure the safety of the personnal with building angled walls directly behind the entrance and further metal doors around the corner. So the intruder or a shock wave from a explosion can't hit directly the soldiers in the bunker and you can't fire directly in the bunker, even if the main door is open. The intruder must enter the bunker and then turn left or right. But left or right there can be the next metal door with another opening for small arms defence fire. If there is Flak above the bunker, there is a small entrance, but in case of close combat this entrance will also be closed.

You see, as attacker don't mess with a westwall bunker until you are totally nuts, undestroyable or some staff sergeant told you to do so (and then pray for massive artillery barrage and heavy bombing before you have to do your job).

But that's about weswall bunkers. There can also a lot of small bunkers with open rear. I visited some small british bunkers on Malta and they looks more than small outposts. In fact the bunkers I saw there were really lookouts against a feared invasion from German and Italian troops. I think the bunkers in AtB and SoS are more like these British Maltesian bunkers with open rear.

Take a look to Wikipedia. The bunker article is very good and offers also some good images from different bunker types.
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Quote:
5) If 3 and/or 4 are "true" then what is the logic? Both from the viewpoint of gameplay and realism.

Do infantry units carry shields in their front? After all, their defense rating is higher in front than in flank...

In CoH, the defense rating (or the difference between front and flank) is not only a result of pure protective surfaces (armor) but it is an overall formula that includes the silhouette and its training, i.e. the unit's ability to protect itself from incoming fire by hiding or taking opportunity of covering. This can be seen as the reason, why the German Pz Engineers have a higher defense value than normal rifle units: they have better training and use cover better in the same environment. CoH postulates that a unit as whole can protect itself better when it sees where enemy fire comes from, so the difference between front and flank defense values is dependend from the direction where the main attention of the unit is focused to.

Now you can apply the same logic to bunkers. The rules explain that the scale is still too unprecise to show single buildings. A bunker hex usually means a defensive bunker system, with concrete fortified pits, trenches, sand bags and other defensive stuff, mostly with the strong side focused towards where the architect expected the threat will come from. The question to ask now is not what raw armor the bunker hex offers to the unit which is deployed in this system, but how the members of the unit are deployed there, i.e. how the squad is capable of improving its own defensive values using the fortifications. The game scale leaves it open how the individual soldiers are positioned, but you can not expect them sitting all together in one iron bell with a window. To protect a bunker, you need to have some sitting within, but also some outside protecting the rear, flanks and top (remember the easy way to kill a bunker shown in movies: sneak up from the side and throw a grenade into the front shooting slots). Those are vulnerable for fire from flanks, and the main group sitting inside the bunker can not help them. An approaching unit flanking and killing those guards will have an easy job to take out the remaining bunker crews, and I can understand a bunker crew surrendering when they notice that their flank guard outside are being slaughtered. And surrendering units in CoH equals being hit or even removed from the game.
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