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Hi,

Got the expansion last weekend, still confused on a few things. One of them is the "first to discard..." goal. Say a player got Damaged Alien Factory as starting world. On turn 1, he discard 1 card and produce. Is he able to claim the "first to discard" now since produce always happens at the round end?
 
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Serge Levert
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
No. The goal is for the first person(s) to discard due to exceeding the maximum hand size at end of turn.
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Matt Davis
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
Serge is correct. The "End of Turn" is different from the Produce phase - it's completely separate phase, even though Produce is the last action phase to occur.
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
Wow, you guys are so quick! Now I have to think about how to tell my wife that she should have won yesterday's game...
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Randall Bart
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
"End of turn" is an odd expression here
 
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Christopher Giroir
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
Barticus88 wrote:
"End of turn" is an odd expression here


Yeah, I think "End of Round" is proper term.

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Rob Neuhaus
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
Also, the goal icon is a bit overloaded. I certainly was mislead by it the first time I saw it. Maybe something with 11 cards, 10 cards that look normal, and the 11th highlighted would have been better (OTOH, I have no graphic design skills, and perhaps 11 cards would just require too much resolution).
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
rrenaud wrote:
Also, the goal icon is a bit overloaded. I certainly was mislead by it the first time I saw it. Maybe something with 11 cards, 10 cards that look normal, and the 11th highlighted would have been better (OTOH, I have no graphic design skills, and perhaps 11 cards would just require too much resolution).


That could be interpreted as having 11 or more cards in hand, which may not be the case when you have Pan-Galactic Research.

Also, the icon on the corner of goal makes it clear that you can't claim it during the Produce phase. Even if you don't recognize the symbol when you look at it, it can't possibly be mistaken for produce. The downward arrow makes sense when you compare it to the reference sheet though.
 
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
I'm OK with the way the icons and symbols are. Frankly, I'm sure the way the system was designed was such that you're either required to read the rules or have someone who knows the game to explain it to you first. After that, you either memorize what something's about, or just looking at the icons then would be enough to refresh your memory


rrenaud wrote:
Also, the goal icon is a bit overloaded. I certainly was mislead by it the first time I saw it. Maybe something with 11 cards, 10 cards that look normal, and the 11th highlighted would have been better (OTOH, I have no graphic design skills, and perhaps 11 cards would just require too much resolution).
That wouldn't make things forwards compatible

Pan Galactic Reasearch, an expansion #2 card ups that player's hand limit to 12 cards. Your approach would now require a modification/edit to show the 13th card as fulfilling the first goal as the exception for if you have PGR


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Brendon Russell
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
ackmondual wrote:
I'm OK with the way the icons and symbols are. Frankly, I'm sure the way the system was designed was such that you're either required to read the rules or have someone who knows the game to explain it to you first. After that, you either memorize what something's about, or just looking at the icons then would be enough to refresh your memory


It bugs me a bit that the text box Pan-Galactic Research doesn't use the same "end of round" icon as the Budget Surplus (first to discard) goal.

Apart from the fact that I just generally like things to be consistent, I feel like it might have been of some additional help as a reminder of its ability. I often find myself forgetting about the additional abilities on PGR and Hidden Fortress, since I'm so used to the phase icon layout doing such a great job of reminding me at a glance what my cards (and my tableau overall) can do for me. Having said that I suppose having it in the text box, whether icon or text, would still make it easy for me to overlook, just like the 12-card hand icon that's there already.
 
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
So am I correct that this goal can NOT be claimed by somebody who use "Deficit Spending" to discard cards, because it happens at Consume phase not Round End?
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Brendon Russell
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
bynna wrote:
So am I correct that this goal can NOT be claimed by somebody who use "Deficit Spending" to discard cards, because it happens at Consume phase not Round End?


Correct. Only at the very end of the round, after all phases have been completed, and the hand size limit is then applied.
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Serge Levert
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
bynna wrote:
So am I correct that this goal can NOT be claimed by somebody who use "Deficit Spending" to discard cards, because it happens at Consume phase not Round End?

You only get this goal if you discard cards at end of round for having surpassed the maximum hand size.
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
bynna wrote:
Wow, you guys are so quick! Now I have to think about how to tell my wife that she should have won yesterday's game...


With flowers, an apology, and an offer of a rematch.
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
bynna wrote:
So am I correct that this goal can NOT be claimed by somebody who use "Deficit Spending" to discard cards, because it happens at Consume phase not Round End?
FWIW, I'm putting in more weight to what others have responded in where Budget Surpuls is only obtained when you discard cards at the END of the round due to going over the hand limit.
 
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Pierce Ostrander
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
A reasonable question and a worthy post... it took us a couple of games to sort out that the 3VP for obtaining the goal was awarded by the first person to exceed their hand limit and as a result be forced to discard.

It rewards the player who first has the best ability to get lots of cards.

The text describing the goal could have been more clearly worded.
 
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Re: "First to discard" confusion
scwont wrote:
It bugs me a bit that the text box Pan-Galactic Research doesn't use the same "end of round" icon as the Budget Surplus (first to discard) goal.


Text boxes don't have phase icons. The phase icon for Explore looks like an empty eyeball, the phase icon for Produce looks like a four-colored good, etc. (You can see them on the back of the player action cards.) None of them are in the text boxes, because it would make things too cluttered.

Pan-Galactic Research has an icon in the text box that represents "your hand limit is 12", which is indicating a power, not a phase.
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