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Subject: Out of the box... so to speak. rss

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Mike Bourgeois
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Forlorn: Hope... a 'In space no one can hear you scream or get turned into stinking vaporous mulch by the Xenos' kind of game.

Victory Point Games has consistently for me turned out some lovely and cost effective games. They fit into my backpack and don't need a huge area to play them in... this is good for me. And of course... the important part... they all play easily and without the uncertainty that you occasionally expect from playing wargames. They're out of the box, read through beginning to end and then play. Up to the play portion might take you 15 minutes to do... and this includes the time taken to punch counters, set up the game and order pizza. The contents are well presented, easy to see and differentiate and are very sturdy. As one person noted before... the only thing they had to gripe about was the bag used to house the game... it was a tight fit and might a ways down the road start to wear at the rules. They've avoided that pitfall with Forlorn: Hope... the bag is a good loose fit with plenty of room for everything you'll want to play the game. (but not sloppy)

From start to finish your contents include...

The front cover art done by Kwanchai Moriya
x2 full color maps a)command deck and b)engineering sublevel
x2 sheets of cut-out standees... bugs and the good guys (the marines)
a chart showing turns left, action points and a order of operation for the game
a small background/mandate from Victory Point Games (double sided)
a small catalog that is slowly getting bigger with every new game
several strips of counters with Marines, Xenos and status indicators
a full deck of Forlorn mutation cards (some nasty stuff there)
the rules of course..8 pages of rules to be exact
the back cover double sided with contents and an advertisement for some of their family/Euro/card games. Take a good look at Circus Train (First Edition) and Nemo's War (also has a great expansion)

all in one bag and a great deal for what I paid.

Now you want to know the important thing I know... how does it play? Can't really tell ya... I've been unloading stuff as I type and the only thing I can tell you is that I've got a map and counters out and have been sorta walking them through the rules as I read and type. Once I'm done that I'll give either one of the regular scenarios a go or... or... I'll play the included solitaire scenarios... how do you like that... more bang for your buck.

If you're looking for the cons of the game... I don't really have any... one thing I did notice that isn't a dealbreaker for me but is out of the ordinary... no tiny dice. I've got a film canister full of them... but it's kinda neat taking them out of the bag along with the rest of the goodies. So if you need the half empty bit... that's the best I can do... sorry.

All in all... I'm a happy man. Thanks to Victory Point Games for publishing this, thanks to my wife for buying this for me and thanks to me for actually noticing it a ways back and having the presence of mind to keep it on my radar.
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Barry Kendall
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It's out?! Sweet as!!!

Gotta order tomorrow.

Sorry, dear, another charge . . . .
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Lance McMillan
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Me? I wanna see what the Expansion Kit's gonna have in it! Chris Taylor has been very secretive about it.
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Bill Gates
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You didn't get any tiny dice? My copy came with a tiny green die and a tiny red one.
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Wulf Corbett
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How big are the maps? The downloadable version is about 17" x 22", but that makes the squares over an inch across. Is that right?
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Scott Everts
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Thanks Mike for the out of the box review!

Wulf Corbett wrote:
How big are the maps? The downloadable version is about 17" x 22", but that makes the squares over an inch across. Is that right?

The maps are 8.5"x11" each. Each square is about 3/4".
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Mike Bourgeois
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milgate wrote:
You didn't get any tiny dice? My copy came with a tiny green die and a tiny red one.


I found out why there are no dice in my bag... there is a small slit in the bottom of my main holder bag... I think the dice fell out the bottom. (shrug) Oh well, I have plenty of dice to take over for what's gone wandering.
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Adam D.
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Quote:
all in one bag and a great deal for what I paid.



$34.95 for
six pages of rules and scenarios (one page of which is advertisement)
60 or so counters
two 8.5 x 11" maps
A number of cards (not listed on their site's content breakdown, but pictured)

I put this in my cart and then looked at the price: woah there cowboy! I thought it was going to be $15 or so.

I like their stuff but that is just too much for what I would get (might be great for you, no argument here, just not for me).

My loss I suppose

edit: correction, $34.95, not $35.95... you just saved a dollar!
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Wulf Corbett
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TheCollector wrote:
$34.95 for
six pages of rules and scenarios (one page of which is advertisement)
8 pages, plus one advert sheet and one designers notes.
Quote:
60 or so counters
68, I think
Quote:
two 8.5 x 11" maps
Correct!
Quote:
A number of cards (not listed on their site's content breakdown, but pictured)
20 of them, defining Alien Xeno powers. They are very small though...

Plus two tiny dice, two sheets of cut-out standees, and the Points.chart.

Looks good to me.
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Jonan Jello
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TheCollector wrote:


I put this in my cart and then looked at the price: woah there cowboy! I thought it was going to be $15 or so.

I like their stuff but that is just too much for what I would get (might be great for you, no argument here, just not for me).

My loss I suppose

edit: correction, $34.95, not $35.95... you just saved a dollar!


Indeed I feel the same way about the price with shipping. It's incredibly high. I really want to support my California game creators/publishers, but it's a tough sell when it's time to checkout.

In the end, I did buy the game and Nemo's War and NW expansion and Zulus on the Ramparts and ZotR expansion and Trenches of Valor. As well, I wrote them and told VPG how I felt about the price of their games with s&h. They sent a reply and let me know why the cost is so high.

If the solitaire of Zulus and Nemo's proves fun, I'll go back and get Israeli Independence.
I've begun scanning all components in case I need to replace pieces due to loss or wear and tear.
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Scott Everts
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This game was very ambitious for VPG. Chris and I worked on it for about 8 months and the price is partially my fault since I added a lot of new elements to the art design. And ink cost skyrocketed for this game compared to other VPG products. I guess I used too many dark colors. Wanted it to look great but it sucks ink at an alarming rate. We discussed ways to lower the costs but wanted this game to be special. Since VPG does all their products "print on demand" the individual unit costs are higher. It would be cheaper to produce this in China but then they'd have to pay upfront costs for printing. They don't operate that way. I love working with VPG and the advantage of doing "print on demand" is they can try out many interesting designs since they only print what they need. If a title doesn't sell well they aren't stuck with a warehouse full of them. But it also means if a product has a lot of components (like Forlorn: Hope) it costs more to make each copy.
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Mike Bourgeois
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TheCollector wrote:
Quote:
all in one bag and a great deal for what I paid.



$34.95 for
six pages of rules and scenarios (one page of which is advertisement)
60 or so counters
two 8.5 x 11" maps
A number of cards (not listed on their site's content breakdown, but pictured)

I put this in my cart and then looked at the price: woah there cowboy! I thought it was going to be $15 or so.

I like their stuff but that is just too much for what I would get (might be great for you, no argument here, just not for me).

My loss I suppose

edit: correction, $34.95, not $35.95... you just saved a dollar!


Keep it on your back burner. It's worth the price for play and if an expansion comes out then it'll add even more to a great game.
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Mike Bourgeois
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Hey speaking of expansions...

how about the mysterious Xenos you hinted about
how about some close quarters specialists for the marines
would a map of the station's exterior make any sense... marines in spacesuits? Zero gee combat?
maybe an arc-welder item to close up vent panels

oh and perhaps a really weird idea but how about personalized counters... pay a few extra bucks for marines with your name, your weapon choice and your command level. Pvt Bourgeois with a shotgun. (if the marines had shotguns of course)

just thinking of course.
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Scott Everts
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mbourgeois wrote:
Hey speaking of expansions...

how about the mysterious Xenos you hinted about
how about some close quarters specialists for the marines
would a map of the station's exterior make any sense... marines in spacesuits? Zero gee combat?
maybe an arc-welder item to close up vent panels

oh and perhaps a really weird idea but how about personalized counters... pay a few extra bucks for marines with your name, your weapon choice and your command level. Pvt Bourgeois with a shotgun. (if the marines had shotguns of course)

just thinking of course.

All awesome ideas! I know Chris is working out plans for an expansion though it will be awhile before its ready. I haven't started on any art yet since I'm working on 3 other titles right now.

I am looking forward to working on it since I enjoyed doing the first one.
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Christopher Taylor
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mbourgeois wrote:
Hey speaking of expansions...

how about the mysterious Xenos you hinted about

One is teased on the Xeno image in the image gallery...

Quote:
how about some close quarters specialists for the marines

One is planned and already on the list. I had some ideas about another type of CQB Marine.

Quote:
would a map of the station's exterior make any sense... marines in spacesuits? Zero gee combat?

Ohhh, hadn't thought of that. Great idea.

Quote:
maybe an arc-welder item to close up vent panels

Maybe. There's already an item that does that.

Quote:
oh and perhaps a really weird idea but how about personalized counters... pay a few extra bucks for marines with your name, your weapon choice and your command level. Pvt Bourgeois with a shotgun. (if the marines had shotguns of course)


Thanks for the ideas!
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Brad Hurst
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Want to talk about price?

Well, I bought a copy, received it. Went to the toilet to read the rules at work. Put the package on the sink next to the toilet. Read a bit, stood up and went to wash hands...

Rules and reference chart slid off said counter and flew straight into the toilet! Argh

So...ordered a NEW copy of the game ten minutes later.

Price? Well, my copy essentially cost me 60 bucks. Hey, must love VP games huh?
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Wulf Corbett
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you didn't fish it out & dry it off? You lack dedication, sir!
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Christopher Taylor
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tarheel wrote:
Well, I bought a copy, received it. Went to the toilet to read the rules at work. Put the package on the sink next to the toilet. Read a bit, stood up and went to wash hands...

Rules and reference chart slid off said counter and flew straight into the toilet! Argh

Oh, no!

Send me a geekmail with your address and I'll mail you a copy of the expansion when it's ready. I dropped my brand new smartphone in the dog's water dish one time, and that sucked so I really feel for you.
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TheCollector wrote:
Quote:
all in one bag and a great deal for what I paid.



$34.95 for
six pages of rules and scenarios (one page of which is advertisement)
60 or so counters
two 8.5 x 11" maps
A number of cards (not listed on their site's content breakdown, but pictured)

I put this in my cart and then looked at the price: woah there cowboy! I thought it was going to be $15 or so.

I like their stuff but that is just too much for what I would get (might be great for you, no argument here, just not for me).

My loss I suppose

edit: correction, $34.95, not $35.95... you just saved a dollar!


I just got it, and it's a good game...but the materials used counter-justify the high price. For $35, the home-made gameset (although a nicely-made print-n-play style game), is not really a good bargain. At $20, it would be passable, but at $35, I just think about the games I could get that actually come in a box. I feel that Victory Games is becoming a very interesting game company, but they are pricing themselves out of my budget.
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j b Goodwin

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tarheel wrote:
Want to talk about price?

Well, I bought a copy, received it. Went to the toilet to read the rules at work. Put the package on the sink next to the toilet. Read a bit, stood up and went to wash hands...

Rules and reference chart slid off said counter and flew straight into the toilet! Argh

So...ordered a NEW copy of the game ten minutes later.

Price? Well, my copy essentially cost me 60 bucks. Hey, must love VP games huh?

Actually, it cost you about 70 bucks. Add another thirty bucks or so, and you could have gotten Space Hulk (although I'm boycotting GW due to their attitude toward their customers).
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ScottE wrote:
This game was very ambitious for VPG. Chris and I worked on it for about 8 months and the price is partially my fault since I added a lot of new elements to the art design. And ink cost skyrocketed for this game compared to other VPG products. I guess I used too many dark colors. Wanted it to look great but it sucks ink at an alarming rate. We discussed ways to lower the costs but wanted this game to be special. Since VPG does all their products "print on demand" the individual unit costs are higher. It would be cheaper to produce this in China but then they'd have to pay upfront costs for printing. They don't operate that way. I love working with VPG and the advantage of doing "print on demand" is they can try out many interesting designs since they only print what they need. If a title doesn't sell well they aren't stuck with a warehouse full of them. But it also means if a product has a lot of components (like Forlorn: Hope) it costs more to make each copy.


Thank you for the explanation, this actually helps my decision to buy some of VPG more expensive games.
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Michael Matecha
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ScottE wrote:
It would be cheaper to produce this in China


I don't mind paying more for USA made products.

Order on it's way...
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Jay Townsend
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I created a box for this game!
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Mike Bourgeois
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Jay Townsend wrote:
I created a box for this game!


Picture?
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Jay Townsend
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I just uploaded a picture of the box in images, give a day or two to get approved.
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