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Subject: +X Coins Question rss

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Scott Ames
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I pretty certain I already know they answer to this, but since I got into an argument about it once, I'd like to see if anyone else has come across this.

Whenever someone played a card with +X money, instead of simply adding that to her buying power for the turn, she claimed that she was able to gain a treasure card of that value. Every time she played Militia, she gained a Silver. If she played a Moneylender, she trashed a Copper and gained a Gold.

So what's correct?

She also insisted that she got 2 cards when playing a Moat in reaction to an attack, drew a Secret Chamber, revealed it, discarded the other six cards in her hand and gained two Gold cards!

I told her this was incorrect and got screamed. What was amazing was that she was teaching the game to new players.

You don't gain treasure cards this way do you?
(Yes, I know its a silly question, but I would like the answer to be stated.)
 
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Caleb
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Anytime you gain a card, the word "gain" is used. Thus, "+2" money is not "gaining" money. You do not gain cards in this way.
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txras wrote:
I pretty certain I already know they answer to this, but since I got into an argument about it once, I'd like to see if anyone else has come across this.

Whenever someone played a card with +X money, instead of simply adding that to her buying power for the turn, she claimed that she was able to gain a treasure card of that value. Every time she played Militia, she gained a Silver. If she played a Moneylender, she trashed a Copper and gained a Gold.

So what's correct?


Your interpretation is correct. It's just virtual coin that adds to your buying power for this turn.

Quote:
She also insisted that she got 2 cards when playing a Moat in reaction to an attack, drew a Secret Chamber, revealed it, discarded the other six cards in her hand and gained two Gold cards!


You can reveal a Moat during someone else's turn to keep an Attack played by them from affecting you. You do not draw cards then. You can play a Moat during your turn to draw two cards.

What you can do is reveal both a Moat and a Secret Chamber in response to the same attack. You can even reveal a Moat you drew with a Secret Chamber. Naturally though, she's completely wrong about discarding six cards and gaining two Golds. I don't even see how she could arrive at that idea.

Try to make her read the rulebook.
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Jeff Wolfe
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The rules say:

Quote:
"+X (coins)" – the player has X number of additional coins to spend in the Buy phase. The player does not take additional Treasure cards for these coins.


Seems pretty clear to me.

ETA: Oh, I missed the Moat/Secret Chamber question. The part above the line is what you do as an Action. The part below the line is what you do as a Reaction. The Reaction ability follows the text, "When another player plays an Attack card,..." On Moat, there's nothing that says you draw two cards after another player plays an Attack card, so you can't do that.

The rules say what happens when you reveal a Moat and what happens when you play it as an Action. They don't explicitly say, "You can't reveal the Moat when someone plays Attack card to draw two cards," but they also don't say that kind of thing for any other card. The Reaction ability is only what the Reaction ability says it is, not anything else.

With Secret Chamber, it's the same idea.
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Scott Ames
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Planetary wrote:
txras wrote:
I pretty certain I already know they answer to this, but since I got into an argument about it once, I'd like to see if anyone else has come across this.

Whenever someone played a card with +X money, instead of simply adding that to her buying power for the turn, she claimed that she was able to gain a treasure card of that value. Every time she played Militia, she gained a Silver. If she played a Moneylender, she trashed a Copper and gained a Gold.

So what's correct?


Your interpretation is correct. It's just virtual coin that adds to your buying power for this turn.

Quote:
She also insisted that she got 2 cards when playing a Moat in reaction to an attack, drew a Secret Chamber, revealed it, discarded the other six cards in her hand and gained two Gold cards!


You can reveal a Moat during someone else's turn to keep an Attack played by them from affecting you. You do not draw cards then. You can play a Moat during your turn to draw two cards.

What you can do is reveal both a Moat and a Secret Chamber in response to the same attack. You can even reveal a Moat you drew with a Secret Chamber. Naturally though, she's completely wrong about discarding six cards and gaining two Golds. I don't even see how she could arrive at that idea.

Try to make her read the rulebook.


I did. I even read it to her. She said since it was her game, we would play by her rules.
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Matt E
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txras wrote:
She said since it was her game, we would play by her rules.

Dude, that's just a problem with your friend. You can't fix that. You can direct her to this thread and show her that she's wrong, but if the rulebook didn't convince her, this thread isn't going to either.

I'd say you should either play with her messed-up rules or, preferably, don't play with her at all.
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Scott Ames
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LastFootnote wrote:
txras wrote:
She said since it was her game, we would play by her rules.

Dude, that's just a problem with your friend. You can't fix that. You can direct her to this thread and show her that she's wrong, but if the rulebook didn't convince her, this thread isn't going to either.

I'd say you should either play with her messed-up rules or, preferably, don't play with her at all.


I do agree. But I wouldn't call her a friend...
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Dan Schaeffer
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txras wrote:
LastFootnote wrote:
txras wrote:
She said since it was her game, we would play by her rules.

Dude, that's just a problem with your friend. You can't fix that. You can direct her to this thread and show her that she's wrong, but if the rulebook didn't convince her, this thread isn't going to either.

I'd say you should either play with her messed-up rules or, preferably, don't play with her at all.


I do agree. But I wouldn't call her a friend...


Yeah, and if I were you, I wouldn't call her the next time I was planning on playing games, either.
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Branko K.
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txras wrote:
I pretty certain I already know they answer to this, but since I got into an argument about it once, I'd like to see if anyone else has come across this.

Whenever someone played a card with +X money, instead of simply adding that to her buying power for the turn, she claimed that she was able to gain a treasure card of that value. Every time she played Militia, she gained a Silver. If she played a Moneylender, she trashed a Copper and gained a Gold.

So what's correct?

She also insisted that she got 2 cards when playing a Moat in reaction to an attack, drew a Secret Chamber, revealed it, discarded the other six cards in her hand and gained two Gold cards!

I told her this was incorrect and got screamed. What was amazing was that she was teaching the game to new players.

You don't gain treasure cards this way do you?
(Yes, I know its a silly question, but I would like the answer to be stated.)


Well my friend claims that "gaining" a card means you can take it home with you after the game.

The moral is: read the rulebook. Oh, and do not play with morons.
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David Murray
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It's a much better game if you play by the proper rules.

Start of the game:
Person A:"I'll gain 8 Provinces and win"
Person B: "What???!!!"
Person A:"Oh, sorry, I don't play by the rules"
Person B: angry

I suggest a "I'll play by the actual rules or not play" approach. The rules make it very clear what +Coins does. Otherwise the card would say "gain a silver".
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Steven Metzger
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I gave away all the GG I had in this thread to the good posts

(Note: I just got a geekbadge so it's not a lot).
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J
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Did you get a chance to see if when Harems are in she plays by the same rules?

Its a shame she and you seem to be the only one who know the game. In most of the game groups I've been in if she tried that and screamed everyone would just scream back.
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Scott Ames
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allstar64 wrote:
Did you get a chance to see if when Harems are in she plays by the same rules?

Its a shame she and you seem to be the only one who know the game. In most of the game groups I've been in if she tried that and screamed everyone would just scream back.

No, she didn't have the Harem card. I just left anyway.
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Roberta Yang
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She's unlikely to listen to reason, but you could point out that the 4-buy Moneylender being "Trash Copper, gain Gold" under her rules makes no sense when the 5-buy Mine is "Trash Copper, gain Silver".

Still, it sounds like she is deluding herself in the same way that the Obama-is-a-muslim-foreigner-terrorist-commuinst crowd like deluding themselves - namely, not by misinterpreting facts but by willfully ignoring facts - so I doubt logic would have any more effect than reading her the rulebook did.
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Steven Metzger
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salty53 wrote:
She's unlikely to listen to reason, but you could point out that the 4-buy Moneylender being "Trash Copper, gain Gold" under her rules makes no sense when the 5-buy Mine is "Trash Copper, gain Silver".

Still, it sounds like she is deluding herself in the same way that the Obama-is-a-muslim-foreigner-terrorist-commuinst crowd like deluding themselves - namely, not by misinterpreting facts but by willfully ignoring facts - so I doubt logic would have any more effect than reading her the rulebook did.
It's really unfortunate that "Dominion: Tea Party" wouldn't be able to come out until after midterms.

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Scott Minkoff
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txras wrote:
I did. I even read it to her. She said since it was her game, we would play by her rules.


I would suggest never playing anything with her again. shake

...also, shunning was invented for a reason. devil
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Branko K.
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In the case of future arguments, I would suggest the following:

1. Get the rulebook
2. Open rulebook on page 3
3. Show her the painfully simple explanation of the "+X Coins" bonus, especially the "The player does not take additional Treasure cards for these coins." part.
4. Tear out page 3, put some ketchup on it and force her to eat it.

Now admittedly this is a waste of a perfectly good rulebook, but it's all for a good cause.
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Simon Lundström
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This is a very common misconception, though. I've had to point this out to all new players I've taught the game to.
 
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Mik Svellov
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baba44713 wrote:
3. Show her the painfully simple explanation of the "+X Coins" bonus, especially the "The player does not take additional Treasure cards for these coins." part.
So I can only take Action or Victory cards for them then?
 
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Nate Walker
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txras wrote:
She said since it was her game, we would play by her rules.


That's ridiculous. Does she make up rules to every game she plays?

Show her this BGG thread and berate her for not knowing what she's talking about.
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Ken Grazier
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baba44713 wrote:

Now admittedly this is a waste of a perfectly good rulebook, but it's all for a good cause.


You could just print out page 3 from the digital version of the rulebook. Heck, print out a dozen and hand them out when she starts explaining her version of the rules.
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Dan Schaeffer
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baba44713 wrote:
Now admittedly this is a waste of a perfectly good rulebook, but it's all for a good cause.


Well, since it's her game and she apparently doesn't care about the rules, nobody will miss the rulebook.
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Dave G
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In our group it's common for this kind of rule-abuse to be punished with summary execution. It's harsh, but it certainly keeps people from trying to buy curses and put them in other people's decks or insist that you have to use every buy on each turn. This is not 'nam, Smokey. There are rules.
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Dave Daley
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
In our group it's common for this kind of rule-abuse to be punished with summary execution. It's harsh, but it certainly keeps people from trying to buy curses and put them in other people's decks or insist that you have to use every buy on each turn. This is not 'nam, Smokey. There are rules.

Execution is a bit strict. Up here in the north we like to keep things a bit lighter. Why not try a Batsu punishment next time? It's painful enough, and amusing for all involved. I recommend either the swift punishment of the stick or Blow Darts - always amusing.
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Andre Lucato
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I hope your friend never applies her own rules when crossing a heavy traffic street regardless what the traffic light shows.
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