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Subject: What is wrong with the Humans? rss

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Bonaparte
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We have just started our first game of Runewars. I ended up with the humans. Not sexy, but I can work with it. So like any gaming nerd with no idea what to do next, I look to the Geek. We have 38 pages of posts that cover everything BUT the humans: The Elves, the Undead, the Uthuk, all have strategy posts. We have posts about heroes, influence, mountains, and minis. No help for the humans. That's okay though, we humans are survivors. We will make it in spite of the fact that my community of geeks has let me down. But after I dismantle the raging hoards of undead and Uthuk, don't come crawling to me to find out how I did it. Clearly there is a code of silence that all humans have sworn to and far be it from me to break it.

(Any suggestion gladly accepted.)
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Adam
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"We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can’t think what anybody sees in them!"
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Basic strategy for the humans? Use your defensive abilities to best effect, and try to actually win the game through an influence heavy strategy, if the elves are not in the game. Otherwise, use your influence to get heroes, and, ideally, head of the heroe's leauge to win through questing. That is it in a nutshell, and a gross oversimplification, but it gives you a couple of basic strategies with which to work. It's a pity diplomacy towards neutrals isn't more effective, the humans need neutral troops to suppliment their offensive weakness more than possibly any other faction.
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Raviv Nagel
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I assume you mean What is wrong with the Humans in the game.
Because I can say a lot of things that are wrong about the "real world" Humans.

But I have another question, when you play with your friends, do you just decide who play which race, and then stop to let every player go read strategies on the web ? Didn't you want to actually play the game ?
Just wondering.
 
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Graham Smallwood
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An undead mid-range unit creates two new units on a special result. The human top tier unit pretends you have two more units for the fight except you don't actually get anything. Is it an advantage that because your best unit is so crappy you have more resources to focus on other guys? Run with that.

- Elf 4eva
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Scott Lewis
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The staple of the Human army should be Archers and Knights. The Seige Towers are nice if you can get multiple of them together, but one is unlikely to pull an Orb all by itself (though one can still do a lot of damage).

The Humans shine with their Cavalry - put them in groups, and you are bound to get orbs, increasing your strength (relatively, by routing opposing units) and getting new cards to play later on.

I see the humans do rather well. They are defensive powerhouses with their fortresses and knights.
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Ragh Gavar
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Attack the Elves. Always.
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Bonaparte
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raviv wrote:
I assume you mean What is wrong with the Humans in the game.
Because I can say a lot of things that are wrong about the "real world" Humans.

But I have another question, when you play with your friends, do you just decide who play which race, and then stop to let every player go read strategies on the web ? Didn't you want to actually play the game ?
Just wondering.


While your questions bring the term wanker to mind, I will answer both. For the first question, I do mean what is wrong with humans in the game. Outside of the game I find judgmentalism and ego-centricism along with people thinking everyone should do things the way they do to be the most common things wrong with humans. For the second, we play games over several sittings. We also don’t play games 15 times usually. So yes, we do some reading to see what others do to get a few insights into games. If this troubles you, see above. Thanks for reading.
 
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Raviv Nagel
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Dave Davies wrote:
raviv wrote:
I assume you mean What is wrong with the Humans in the game.
Because I can say a lot of things that are wrong about the "real world" Humans.

But I have another question, when you play with your friends, do you just decide who play which race, and then stop to let every player go read strategies on the web ? Didn't you want to actually play the game ?
Just wondering.


While your questions bring the term wanker to mind, I will answer both. For the first question, I do mean what is wrong with humans in the game. Outside of the game I find judgmentalism and ego-centricism along with people thinking everyone should do things the way they do to be the most common things wrong with humans. For the second, we play games over several sittings. We also don’t play games 15 times usually. So yes, we do some reading to see what others do to get a few insights into games. If this troubles you, see above. Thanks for reading.


You missed my sarcasm regarding the first question.
About the second, I really did wonder how it came to be that you chose races, but didn't actually play.
The whole post was tongue-in-cheek. You took it way too seriously. No harm done.

On a serious note, when my group play games, we usually avoid reading strategies. Discovering what works and what doesn't is part of the fun, even though we don't play the same game many times.
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Ajax
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Are we human or are we dancer?
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Dorque wrote:
An undead mid-range unit creates two new units on a special result. The human top tier unit pretends you have two more units for the fight except you don't actually get anything. Is it an advantage that because your best unit is so crappy you have more resources to focus on other guys? Run with that.

- Elf 4eva


The necromancer is not midrange. They are the core of the undead army and protecting them (specifically by not fighting the elves with their snipers) is central to winning with the undead. The secondary goal is to aim for resources that get you two sorcerers in one advanced recruit.

The siege towers are also not the "top tier" units. Those would be the cavalry with their ability to move crazy fast, hit early, draw cards, and attack well. The sexagon units for those two are useful for specific situations (the siege tower for amassing a large late-game fortress attack, the knights for coordinating a good mixed army) but I wouldn't build my army around either.

The chaos beasts: now there's an army-builder.

But for humans you want to have archers helping the knights by weakening big things if you're fighting elves or chaos (especially Chaos if you're attacking and want to kill a chaos lord since attacker specials trigger before the Chaos 1-initiative units that can potentially soak 3 hits), or the soldiers to support the knights in case Chaos/Undead think they can "soak" a hit by giving it to his big unit (which Undead will certainly want to do to protect their necromancers if they have too few skeletons).
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Alex H.
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BagpipeDan wrote:
Dorque wrote:
An undead mid-range unit creates two new units on a special result. The human top tier unit pretends you have two more units for the fight except you don't actually get anything. Is it an advantage that because your best unit is so crappy you have more resources to focus on other guys? Run with that.

- Elf 4eva


The necromancer is not midrange. They are the core of the undead army and protecting them (specifically by not fighting the elves with their snipers) is central to winning with the undead. The secondary goal is to aim for resources that get you two sorcerers in one advanced recruit.


I think you make very valid points here about how to build armies. In fact, many players will at first just look at the symbols and try to get hexagon units not matter what expecting this to be the best way to empower their armies. Only after some careful consideration will they begin to see that each opponent requires an adjustment in the way you build your army and that a good army requires more than just hexagon-hunting.
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I think you can tell a "noob" player if you see them focusing on the Hexagon units, rather than looking at their race's "staple" units.

Seige engines can be useful. Knights+Archers are MORE useful, especially with some Footmen to flesh them out (especially when fighting against big-health units).

Death Knights can be useful. A swarm of Necromancers is MUCh more useful.

Chaos Lords are very useful on their own. But even they can't be the backbone of your army - the Uthuk should be focusing on their Berserkers and Warlocks, with Flesh Rippers thrown in as possible damage absorption if possible.


I look at Hexagon units as being heavy support units - excellent to have, but they need to have bulk around them if they are going to do their job right.
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Chaos Lords are very useful on their own. But even they can't be the backbone of your army - the Uthuk should be focusing on their Berserkers and Warlocks, with Flesh Rippers thrown in as possible damage absorption if possible.


I look at Hexagon units as being heavy support units - excellent to have, but they need to have bulk around them if they are going to do their job right.


I'd agree with everything but this. If you can get a fleshripper and Chaos Lord army, you've got a quality army. If you can double up Chaos Lords on your Mountain track (three ore and a resource tile) you can produce a deadly army very quickly. You'll always have some sorcerers or beserkers to absorb hits, but as great as a mass of beserkers can be (and how easy to get) the "soaking" ability of the Chaos Lords paired with the soaking ability of the fleshrippers (or even if they don't soak one will very likely disable two units) makes for a lot of very damaging attacks and what you lack in number can be made up for in sheer kills. I would take full mountain recruitment over any other every time.

The only time this would be inferior to the beserker/sorcerer-heavy lineup is against the elves because of those damn swordsmen or an archer-heavy human army. The sorcerers, though, are designed to take out elves or the humans and more importantly they are on wood, a resource the elves should want very badly themselves. Of course if the humans are going swordsmen heavy, you are going to need just a little fodder to save for them.

I am recounting this kind of second-hand, though, because I rarely play chaos. I've mostly fought them as humans and I always felt safer having archers rather than swordsmen because of the fleshripper initiative (it's easier to kill units who have already shot). As undead I hate fighting the Chaos, but I suck with the skeleton-people (even though I think they are the best) so I wouldn't know exactly what to do there.

Honestly I do play humans most of the time and I simply love their defensive capabilities. I'd say the best reason to keep siege towers, by the by, is not for offense but defense. It is very easy to be overwhelmed in defense, but last game if I had kept one more tower on my front line instead of saving him for an attack, a crushing defeat would have been a Pyhrric Victory if I had drawn one more card and received even only +1 against the Chaos player (who killed everything but because he was Chaos Lord heavy suffered in numbers).
 
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You make a good point. I think maybe with the Uthuk one of their strengths is that they have maybe a few different types of "staple armies" to choose from, each which can be viable in certain situations.

Perhaps it just depends on what resources you have readily available?


 
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stephen biggs
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Is it possible to play the Human's with an "undead" strategy. Using the Knights to generate tactics cards instead of necromancers generating revenants. ?

The knights don't look as efficient as Necromancers.
1) 8 knights with 20% chance to gain a tactic card. V's 8 necromancers with 40%. The undead can average 6.4 revenants per year. Which is a similar net gain to an extra recruit order.
The Humans only average 1.6 tactics cards, actions which produce cards usually get 2-4 per order.
2) Tactics cards can't be used in the season you draw them, revenants do fight in the battle they are created in.
3) A viable way to "jump-start" deploying all 8-necromancers, is the tactics card which deploys 3-circle units. This card only deploys 2-square units for the humans.
Overalll, if the Humans try to adopt undead strategies, they'd make a distinctly second rate copy.

 
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Alex H.
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I like your hypothetical test (humans with undead strategy) but it is of course somewhat flawed. Whoever approaches the human knights as primarily a way of generating revenues will lose not because the knights are not that efficient in doing so but because he misses the the relative power of units vs tactic cards and ignores how battles are won. Even if your hand is full of b cards you need an army to make many of them work. And unless your units start killing someone you will not make much progress on the board (unless, of course, you play totally defensive and focus on heroes alone to gather runes).
 
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