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A Most Dangerous Time: Japan in Chaos, 1570-1584» Forums » Rules

Subject: Another Question on Ikko-Ikki rss

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Juan Valle
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Hi Fellows,

Sorry for being a little pest, but another question from last game session arose and I forgot to include yesterday.

It has to do with Ikko-Ikki and OOC. According to the rules if the Ikko-Ikki monks can trace a path line to any temple, then they are in supply; it explains for example the case of Nagashima, which most if not all of the time will be surrounded by Oda units and/or Oda controlled spaces.

Just to confirm we did it right, therefore the only way an Ikko-Ikki can get OOC is if it occupies a non temple space; for example, the monks captured Kyo(as happened in our game) and then Oda captured Ibaraki and we therefore handled the Ikko-Ikki as if OOC since the rest of adjacent spaces were also Oda controlled.

If Adam or any other fellow can just confirm this little doubt, I'll really appreciate it.

Thanks to MMP, Adam and Mr.Nakamura for bringing up this game. I am off next two days, and AMDT will be the first game to hit my gaming table.

Regards,

Jumval

 
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Juan Valle
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Hi,

Maybe I need to clarify a little in the above example: the monks captured Ibaraki from Oda, and in their next turn they moved and captured Kyo from Oda(there are no sieges at Kyo).

Then the Oda units recaptured Ibaraki, leaving the monk units at Kyo(I understand) in OOC status, surrounded by Oda units and/or Oda controlled spaces.

One turn later Oda units assulted Kyo and we handled the battle as all the monks there were OOC(no sieges at Kyo).

What I want is to confirm that we handled such a situation in the right way, and as stated in the previous post, the monks are not OOC if they are in a temple space.

Fellows my gratitude in advance for all of your knowledge.

Regards,

Jumval
 
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Jeff K
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I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. The Ikko Ikki have to trace a line of communication to one of their start spaces, like any clan that does not have a home castle. They cannot trace LOC to a space which is originally an enemy space that is now Ikko-Ikki controlled. The Saika have to trace to one of their spaces as well, not an I-I space. I believe this is the way we have played it.
 
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Adam Starkweather
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Ikko-Ikki is in supply if they can trace to any Anti-Oda faction controlled temple.
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Juan Valle
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Hi Jeff,

I agree with you, and basically you said the same that I thought, with different words.

In my example, the monks attacked and captured Ibaraki from Ishiyama(one of their starting spaces), then they captured Kyo on a later turn.

Oda counterattacked and recaptured Ibaraki, while Kyo was still Ikko-Ikki occupied, henceforth the monks got their LOC to Ishiyama cut down and were OOC.

I read again the rules section and definitively makes sense in the way you mentioned, with the monks tracing a LOC to their starting spaces. In this way, they can be at Nagashima and fully supplied, although Nagashima is mostly surrounded by Oda units and Oda controlled spaces.

Thanks for the help,

Jumval
 
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Juan Valle
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Hi Adam,

Thanks for your reply!!

Jumval
 
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Jeff K
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adamant wrote:
Ikko-Ikki is in supply if they can trace to any Anti-Oda faction controlled temple.

Wow, this is news. We have not been playing it that way. Is this in the rulebook or clarifications?
 
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Dennis Gadgaard
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To me as well; I was playing it as Ikko-Ikki being in supply if they can trace to any Ikko-Ikki controlled space.
Then again, I'm on my very first game at the moment, so I expect to make a lot of mistakes
 
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Joel K
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Xookliba wrote:
adamant wrote:
Ikko-Ikki is in supply if they can trace to any Anti-Oda faction controlled temple.

Wow, this is news. We have not been playing it that way. Is this in the rulebook or clarifications?


Not that I can find. 5.2, which covers tracing LOC, mentions an exception for Ikko-Ikki and Ashikaga, directing you to see 15.1 and 15.2 for more.

But I see nothing in either 15.1 or 15.2 that discusses what the LOC exception is (in fact the word "communications" doesn't even appear in those sections).

Edit: It's in the Errata document on CSW.
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Jeff K
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Thanks Joel, I guess I did miss that. I saw exactly what what you saw, I looked at the sections indicated for the exceptions, but as you noted it does not mention tracing LOC anywhere.

So, I suppose that means more or less the same is true for Clan Ashikaga? It hasn't come up in the short game, but I believe we were playing trace LOC to any anti-oda minor space. it is going to be much more a factor in the standard game which I am now playing.
 
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Jeff K
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DenGad wrote:
I'm on my very first game at the moment, so I expect to make a lot of mistakes


Amen, brother! We made quite a few ourselves the first couple go-rounds. However, interestingly enough, these did not significantly detract from the game or our enjoyment of it. We did have to start a game over once, but mostly it wasn't a big deal.
 
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Dennis Gadgaard
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Sorry, that this is a bit off-topic; Just finished my first game (10 rounds short game). I did completely forgot the rule about reducing temples and castles to 1 after capture.

I made a complete log of every dice thrown and every decision in the game so I could basically retrace my steps whenever I discovered a mistake (made the game stretch over 3 days though, but good for learning).

I think I need to make a reference to important exceptions, like which clan can't enter what areas until a certain turn etc. I found that most difficult to remember.

Don't think I'll post the entire log as a session report though, since it would be a lengthy dry study in poor tactics

Edit: The short version; Oda won, controlling 7.
 
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Adam Starkweather
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Apologies - just went through the rules and I was mistaken...treat Ikko-Ikki (and Ashikaga) as a clan without a home castle - just like the rules say.

Oops...too many games in my head.



Adam
 
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Jeff K
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adamant wrote:
Apologies - just went through the rules and I was mistaken...treat Ikko-Ikki (and Ashikaga) as a clan without a home castle - just like the rules say.


Okay, this makes perfect sense to me. And this is exactly how we have been playing it.

But I will have to say that I am completely confused, simply because Joel is absolutely correct. On the CSW posted errata it says: "The Ikko-Ikki trace OOC [sic]* to any friendly Faction controlled space that has a Temple."

*(I am assuming that means LOC, of course.)


Does this mean the errata has errata?
 
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Adam Starkweather
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I didn't have access to the errata and of course assumed you guys had checked it...

So my memory isn't faulty.

Ikko-Ikki can trace to any Anti-Oda faction controlled temple. That's what I thought.



So the errata does say that?
 
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Jeff K
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Yes it does.
 
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