lotus dweller
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
I see a lot of Americans worrying that the Health Care Bill will make their country socialist.

But with government spending already contributing near 45% of the GDP it appears that they have misplaced their concerns and missed the celebratory May Day Parade.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.ht...

To me 45% of GDP looks like a semi-command economy a la the Soviet Union or perhaps a centrally controlled economy like the Peoples Republic of China.

Anyway I just wanted to welcome you Yanks to the grand global socialist brotherhood.

Comrades! At last!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Warning: Switching to line chart


For some reason, I found that hilarious. Anything but the line chart.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Edwards
United Kingdom
London
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I don't think its very logical to equate an increase in the deficit or in federal spending as a percentage of GDP with socialism. It says nothing about the proportion of capital that is held in private vs public hands.

For instance China has a much lower percentage. Scandinavian countries much higher. The later aren't more socialist than the former.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
Pinook wrote:
But with government spending already contributing near 45% of the GDP it appears that they have misplaced their concerns and missed the celebratory May Day Parade.
One definition of Socialism is "public ownership of economy". If expenditures aren't matched by revenue, then the public doesn't own much, but someone else owns the public. That's not Socialism, that's Borrowism.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
lotus dweller
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
chiddler wrote:


Do the workers own the means of production? No. therefore the USA is not socialist.


Oh damn.
This means that Denmark, Sweden , Britain and Australia aren't socialist countries either!


Guess you guys get to keep singing The Star-Spangled Banner after all.
But maybe you could learn the words below just in case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internationale_Russian.ogg


Arise, wretched of the earth
Arise, convicts of hunger
Reason thunders in its crater
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us wipe the slate clean
Enslaved masses, arise, arise
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|
|
There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caesar, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves
Decree the common welfare
So that the thief expires,
So that the spirit be pulled from its prison,
Let us fan the forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|

The state oppresses and the law cheats
The tax bleeds the miserable
No duty is imposed on the rich
'Rights of the poor' is a hollow phrase
Enough languishing in custody
Equality wants other laws:
No rights without obligations, it says,
And as well, no obligations without rights
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Virre Linwendil Annergård
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
Forza Bajen!
badge
... and still sober
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pinook wrote:

This means that Denmark, Sweden , Britain and Australia aren't socialist countries either!


Yes and nobody here says we are, Sweden have had labour party rule, but they gave up on socialism a long long long time ago.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Britten
United Kingdom
Newark
Nottinghamshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
virre wrote:
Pinook wrote:

This means that Denmark, Sweden , Britain and Australia aren't socialist countries either!


Yes and nobody here says we are, Sweden have had labour party rule, but they gave up on socialism a long long long time ago.


The British Labour Party hasn't been socialist since 1983 when Michael Foot resigned as leader. You could argue that John Smith (and by extension Tony Blair) was the one who really ended socialism in the Labour Party, but Foot was the last true socialist Labour Party leader.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David K
Canada
toronto
ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Chiddler:"Do the workers own the means of production? No. therefore the USA is not socialist."

Pinook:"This means that Denmark, Sweden , Britain and Australia aren't socialist countries either!"

Both of these quotes are completely true.

I have to say, I've heard the Internationale sung in English hundreds of times, and this is the worst, least-poetic version I've ever encountered. There are lots of minor variations to the Internationale, but if you hadn't told me what song this was supposed to be I don't think I would have recognized it.

Socialism isn't some arcane, impenetrable thing that can happen secretly or by accident. It requires the conscious activity of millions of people. (For the record, I don't believe socialism has ever existed.)While Chiddler's point is completely true as far as it goes, at least in theory, a society would need collectivized property forms AND a higher productivity of labor and standard of living to be socialist.

Pinook, I think you're joking, but I have to say that one reason I've become (somewhat) more involved with RSP is being pissed off at tthe breathtakingly ignorant things people have had to say about socialism. The lack of large-scale social struggle has resulted in a profound (and kind of depressing) political illiteracy, perhaps particularly in North America. Barack Obama? A socialist? Fucking spare me.

(Good god! I just reread this. When I write quickly the result is so... inelegant. My apologies.)


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
lotus dweller
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
I am kind of joking and I am also ignorant.
And Chiddler was kind enough to point out the flaw in my reasoning.

I know that some of the US gov annual spend goes on the armed forces and intelligence. Some of which does or has kept the free world going. And some of which ... well I think we usually get representative leaders and we are in general appallingly politically ignorant. Even more than me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Taylor
United States
Gastonia
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Damn man, I'm bad at socializing. This sucks.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.