Petri P
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I recently got SoS, and while reading the rules I have some questions about the fortifications and close combat.

I found a thread, http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/436416/rule-question-clo... , about close combat and bunkers among other things but the last post from September 2009 still left unanswered questions. Instead of responding to that thread, I'd like to ask my questions with an example here.

Lets assume the following situation for simplicity:
- The Russian player is out of CAPs, cards, and all his units are spent.
- There is a +5 black / +2 red bunker with a Russian unit inside
- The German player has an activated infantry squad in the same hex.

1) The german player fires at the Russian squad in the same hex, by paying the normal firing cost. (Close Combat)

Q1: What DV the Russian squad has? 18.2 says +5 from from bunker's front, and +2 from bunker's flank. Close combat is normally against unit's flank, also with fortifications (18.6). +5 or +2? (I'd say +2, but I am not 100% sure about this).

2) The german player expends +1AP in addition to its fire action to "assault fortification in close combat, to occupy it" (18.2).

Q2a: Is the above legal? I.e. 18.2. speaks of "this additional action" during CC - normally there would be a normal fire action, then the Russian passes, then an "additional" normal action at 1 AP, later, to occupy the bunker, outside of close combat.

(The wording in the rules implies that the "additional action" at +1 is tied to the assault in CC, maybe allowing the additional action at the same time as the fire action - if there was no special case for this, the normal rules would clearly be used, with no "additional actions" during CC attack).

Q2b: If the CC attack can be made with +1 AP to occupy the bunker, what happens if the Russians survive the attack - are both squads then inside the bunker? (I'd say yes, as 18.0 clearly says that fortifications benefit both occupying players.)

3) Can the German player enter the occupied bunker without close combat? Use 1 AP to enter the bunker, the Russian passes, then the German attacks in Close Combat from inside of the bunker?

Q3): Is this possible - can a unit normally enter a bunker occupied by the enemy? (I'd say yes, based on 18.0 and nothing preventing it).

4) Both players have now a unit inside the bunker and the German fires at the Russian.

Q4: What would the russian DV be against an attack from inside of the same bunker? +5, +2 or even +0? (18.0 and depending on answer to Q1, it should be the same as the Russians get when fired at from outside of the bunker - i.e. +5 or +2?)

5) 18.4 says that a player can attack wire even if there are enemy units in the same hex.

Q5a: What is the purpose of this rule? Normally the same attack is applied to all enemy units, and 18.6 says that the fortifications and hindrances are attacked at the same time as the enemy units are attacked? (I.e. there seems to be no reason to specifically allow it just for wire - it is already allowed).

Q5b: Is it possible to attack just the wire (not enemy units), based on 18.4? (I'd say no.)

Q5c: Are there situations where a fortification or a hindrance (other than wire) can not be attacked when there are enemy units in the same hex, thus requiring an exemption for wire in 18.4?

An official answer or pointer to such one would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
 
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James Palmer
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petrip wrote:
Q1: What DV the Russian squad has? 18.2 says +5 from from bunker's front, and +2 from bunker's flank. Close combat is normally against unit's flank, also with fortifications (18.6). +5 or +2? (I'd say +2, but I am not 100% sure about this).


You are correct, it would be +2, because it's a flanking shot.

Quote:

2) The german player expends +1AP in addition to its fire action to "assault fortification in close combat, to occupy it" (18.2).


The wording in this part of the rules is confusing. Basically there's just a 1 AP cost action to move from outside the bunker to inside the bunker. It's a separate action, and you aren't adding it to any other action (the "+" in the rules shouldn't be there and is misleading.) I

Quote:

Q2a: Is the above legal? I.e. 18.2. speaks of "this additional action" during CC - normally there would be a normal fire action, then the Russian passes, then an "additional" normal action at 1 AP, later, to occupy the bunker, outside of close combat.

(The wording in the rules implies that the "additional action" at +1 is tied to the assault in CC, maybe allowing the additional action at the same time as the fire action - if there was no special case for this, the normal rules would clearly be used, with no "additional actions" during CC attack).


There's no difference in what you can do dependent on whether you're in "CC" or not. I think Uwe stressed the CC part in the rules, because in the previous ruleset, you couldn't enter a bunker if your enemy was already in it.

Quote:

Q2b: If the CC attack can be made with +1 AP to occupy the bunker, what happens if the Russians survive the attack - are both squads then inside the bunker? (I'd say yes, as 18.0 clearly says that fortifications benefit both occupying players.)


As I mentioned above, the 1 AP to occupy the bunker is a separate action, which you can do even if there is an enemy unit in it.

Quote:

3) Can the German player enter the occupied bunker without close combat? Use 1 AP to enter the bunker, the Russian passes, then the German attacks in Close Combat from inside of the bunker?


Yup!

Quote:

Q3): Is this possible - can a unit normally enter a bunker occupied by the enemy? (I'd say yes, based on 18.0 and nothing preventing it).


Yes - as I mentioned above, this used to not be the case, but as of the V2 ruleset it is allowed.

Quote:

4) Both players have now a unit inside the bunker and the German fires at the Russian.

Q4: What would the russian DV be against an attack from inside of the same bunker? +5, +2 or even +0? (18.0 and depending on answer to Q1, it should be the same as the Russians get when fired at from outside of the bunker - i.e. +5 or +2?)

They would now both get the +2 flank bonus of the bunker (See 18.0)

Quote:

5) 18.4 says that a player can attack wire even if there are enemy units in the same hex.

Q5a: What is the purpose of this rule? Normally the same attack is applied to all enemy units, and 18.6 says that the fortifications and hindrances are attacked at the same time as the enemy units are attacked? (I.e. there seems to be no reason to specifically allow it just for wire - it is already allowed).


The section in 18.6 only says that fotifications get attacked simultaneously, not hinderences. The barbed wire is an exception to this. For instance, if you're attacking a unit on a land mine, you don't roll for both the unit and the land mine.

Quote:

Q5b: Is it possible to attack just the wire (not enemy units), based on 18.4? (I'd say no.)


Well, if there's no enemy u nits in that hex, you could. Otherwise, no, and there's not really any reason you wouldn't want to hit as the enemy units too, anyway.

Quote:

Q5c: Are there situations where a fortification or a hindrance (other than wire) can not be attacked when there are enemy units in the same hex, thus requiring an exemption for wire in 18.4?


Yes, land mines.

Quote:

An official answer or pointer to such one would be greatly appreciated, thanks!


No problem, hope I was of help!
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James Palmer
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I should also add, that for fortifications, the attack is only simultaneous agains the enemy units and the foritifcations if the units are *in* the fortification. So if you have an enemy unit it the same hex as a bunker but not in the bunker, and you attack it, you only roll for the enemy unit, not the bunker.
 
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Petri P
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Thank you for your answer!
 
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