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Roma» Forums » Rules

Subject: "Activating" basilica rss

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Village Digiot
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In the rules (and in these forums) I have seen that with your three dice you can use one to get a card, second die to get money, spend the money to place the card and use your third dice to activate.

My question is: what if you use the procedure above to get, buy, and place Forum next to Basilica, using your final die to activate the forum.

The Rule Book says about basilica: "If a forum is activated (it must lie directly next to the basilica), the player gets two more victory points. The Basilica itself is not activated."

About activating the forum card, the Rule Book says: "This card requires two dice: ONE TO ACTIVATE (my emphasis) and another die which determines how many victory points the player receives."

So, let's say, I use one dice to get the forum card, my second die to get money to place it, pay my money and place the forum next to a basilica. Can I use my third and final die to "activate the forum" thus triggering the basilica to give out victory points?

My friend says that you can not place a single die on a two-dice card on any single turn.

According to my close and literal reading of the rules listed above. The basilica spits out VPs whenever the forum is "activated," and the rules state clearly that one die "activates" the card. Thus it only takes one die on the forum for the basilica to spit VPs even if the forum does not yield points.

Anybody have another way to literally interpret the rules?




 
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Ken Thibodeau
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Your friend is right. You have to use 2 dice to activate the forum, then basilica kicks in. So your "procedure" is incorrect
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Village Digiot
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If others say so, am willing to accept that this is as standard game play.

but I still don't understand why the rules say that basilica gives VP when forum is activated and that one die activates the forum? I guess I like playing the straight rules.

Do you have any source in the rules for this, or is it just the better standardization of play?
 
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howl hollow howl
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I think it's a fair question (can you activate the Forum without assigning an unused die in order to get the benefit of the Basilica) with no clear answer from the rules as printed, although in the Roma II rules it says "you need two dice for [Forum]". I would rule with your friend; the "one to activate" phrase on Forum basically means that you otherwise ignore the value of the die.
 
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Ken Thibodeau
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Like Dave mentionned, it is based on Roma II rulings. I didn't mind looking into the rulebook of Roma I, but from experience (with several other players) we all played it this way. But of course, an official reply would settle the case
 
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Village Digiot
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I am looking at rule book of Roma I now and it says that basilica gives 2 victory points when forum is "activated" and on the first page of the rules it says that the forum card requires two dice to get the action; "one to activate" and the other die to determine the number of victory points to be gained.

The rules seem very clear in the literal sense that "one to activate" means that one die "activates" the card, and that the basilica gives victory points when the forum is "activated" and nothing more is required.

According to these rules: If I use my first (of three) die on the forum card, would I not get the basilica 2 VP bonus immediately at the moment I "activated" the forum card? TheIs there anything in the rules that says I have to wait to get my basilica victory points when I place my second die? No, technically (directly according to the rules) I get those points when the forum is "activated" and that one die "activates" the forum.

I don't see anything in the rules that even implies that the basicala vp points are triggered by anything other than the "one die" activation of the forum card. The rules do not say to wait on receiving Basilica VP points I place a second die, nor does it say to wait for the completion of the action of the forum card. The rules state simply that the one die "activation" of the forum card triggers the basilica Victory Points and are are awarded on the spot. Not all card actions can be successfully completed, and no where does it say that basilica points are dependent on successful completion of the action of the forum, but at the moment of "activation" of the card.

Them's the rules.

Please show me where in the rules it says that basilica points are awarded at any other point than the "activation" moment of the forum card which is clearly stated in the rules as to occur with the placement of the first die.

It seems so strange to me that no one else has ever wrestled with this literal interpretation of the rules.
 
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howl hollow howl
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We're not arguing the wording of Basilica, but simply the wording of Forum. I just checked the online Roma rules, and their wording is similar to Roma II: "FORUM requires 2 action dice"; you used the same wording in your post.

"Requires" / "Needs" = assigning 1 action die is not a valid option.

Now, assuming that's the case, your last post identifies the need to define the Forum/Basilica action to be atomic, which is how I would rule it. This is relevant when there are 1-2 VP in the general supply, and the active player needs the additional VP from the Forum in order to surpass the leader. I base this on the "2 more VP" wording on the Basilica, which suggests this payout is done concurrently with the Forum payout; you could also use this same phrase to further support the original ruling discussed above.
 
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Stefan Feld
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Hi !

I don´t know the official wording in the rulesmodest, but here is my answer:

You need 2 dies to activate the FORUM, so the BASILICA triggers with the second dice.

Greetings
Stefan
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Joe Cana yy
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Hi all,

One more question about Basilica,

If I have one Basilica on the left of Forum, the other on the right of Forum, when I activate Forum, I got +4 VPs or +2 VPs only?

Tks for help.
Joe
 
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