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Subject: (PC) Squad-level based wargames from WW1/2 rss

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Joe Kundlak
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Hi guys,

I am revisiting my long-lost love for squad-based WW1/2 PC wargames and would like to get some oppinions and recommendations from regular players.

1. Panzer General - many praise this turn-based game and I remember playing it a long time ago... Recently I saw the announcement of a remake finished - Panzer General Forever and there are many new features and fixes against the original game.

Your thoughts on the series and the best game of that gang/the remake?


2. Steel Panthers - I remember enjoying this game very much, especially its 2nd version (the third not that much), but I was no extensive player back then. This also spawned some new versions, especially:
SP World at War
SP World War 2
SP Main Battle Tank

Which of these three guys works best and why?


3. Additionally, I came along Sudden Strike 1/2, which I also played back then for some time (the 1st incarnation). How is this one compared to the above? (Of course I know it is a totally different game - realtime etc.)

Your thoughts on this one?

4. And lastly, are there any other games worth checking out (before I start playing one), that fall either into the PG/SP category, or to SS category?
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If you're okay with Real-time combat, your best bet would be Company of Heroes and Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts.
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Also, I'm tipping you with GG for sharing this news and website for a new PGF. I loved that game and was really missing it recently. Thank you!
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Tony Farrand
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You may want to check out the Combat Mission series on Battlefront.com. The game has been around a while and the graphics are basic, but the game play is tremendous. In my experience, it's the best thing to Squad Leader on the computer. You submit orders to your units and then watch a minute of "real time" action before you have another opportunity to submit orders...a great compromise between turn based and true real time gaming. Based on troop quality, proximity of leaders, etc. your troops may or may not do what you want them to do when you want them to do it...and morale is huge. It's ok single player (the AI is not that great on attack), but it is very good head to head. You can play hot seat or by email. It's my favorite tactical WWII game on the PC.

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Brian Hertzog
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Men of War -- amazing game. http://www.menofwargame.com/

Download the demo and check it out.
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Michael J
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Panzer General was an all-time favorite of mine. For a long time, it was the only wargame I had ever played PBEM. Some of the battles were long and memorable. I am especially fond of the battle where I sent a lone scout plane up the side of the map, then along the top, only to sneak in on an enemy airbase that was far out of range, giving me enough points to win the game. Ah, good times. I bet my opponent is on BGG now! (If my oppopnent reads this and remembers this defeat from 10 years ago, please contact me, and I'll offer a rematch!)

While not typically a wargame, I always was fond of the Commandos series as well. I loved ordering my characters to infiltrate buildings, grab stationary guns, and create distractions. They were some of the best WWII games I ever played.
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Dave Nellis
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Check out thehe Close Combat series. That as well as the aforementioned Combat Mission series, were both attempts at making a PC version of ASL.

The level of detail in Combat Mission is stunning.
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Martin Tyman
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Here is one that I am keeping an eye on. The game engine is based on Lock 'n Load: Band of Heroes. But who knows when it will be released...

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/349/details/Mark.H..Walk...

Here is a screen shot from last month...
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2367920
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Bob Roberts

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Combat Mission for certain. You really only need CMBB and CMAK, CMAK covers 95% of what the original Beyond Overlord covered but uses the latest version of the Combat Mission system.

Men of War was surprisingly good, enough so that I went back and picked up its older version Soldiers:Heroes of WWII as well.

Sean O'Connor's Firefight is well worth a look, though it is only single player.

TacOps, from the company that makes Combat Mission, has included WWII units finally. But it is really a modern warfare game, and the WWII units are really only usable in multiplayer games from what I understand. Still, in spite of its very dated graphics TacOps is one of the best computer wargames I have played. Well worth a look even though it isn't technically WWII.

Panzer Command:Winter Storm and Panzer Command: Kharkov from Matrix. Sort of Combat Mission style games. I tried the first one and it was decent, but didn't "stick" the way Combat Mission did.

Then there is this http://www.historicalsoftware.com/
Which now appears to cover modern and WWII. This thing made my brain hurt but some folks like super-complex
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Jared Quintana
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What about Brothers in Arms. If I remember correctly you you control up to two squads in a third person/first person view.

Sten
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Jin Hayashi
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I enjoyed playing Close Combat III-V, but didn't care for the first two versions.

Has anyone played the newer Wacht im Rhein or Cross of Iron versions from Matrix Games? I'd love to hear your feedback.

You may also want to check out the EastFront, WestFront, Rising Sun series from Talonsoft that are turned based games on the platoon level.
However, I didn't find them quite as good as Steel Panthers, Close Combat or Combat Missions.
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Murray Lewis
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stenmur wrote:
What about Brothers in Arms. If I remember correctly you you control up to two squads in a third person/first person view.

Sten


Brothers in Arms is still very much an FPS, though. The tactical element is necessary to succeed (if you don't use your squad(s) to effectively pin down enemy positions then you'll get cut down), but if you are skilled at general FPS games you can still beat most of the game with a lucky sprint and a few good shots.
 
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Kai Bettzieche
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Ladenburg
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History Line - download it here

HL is a hex based wargame for either one player vs. computer or two players on a hot seat. Turn order is: One player moves while the other one opens fire. Each kind of unit may advance during a battle, making it very deadly over time.
The maps are well balanced and the aims are mostly tactical ones like "conquer the opponent's HQ". Only few maps simulate static warfare.

All in all a very interesting game, if you ask me ..
Drawback: It's 18 years old
 
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