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Subject: Cube Drafts for Vtes rss

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Sam Marsh
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I have noticed a number of posts on this site extolling the virtues of Cube Draft for Magic, and having played Magic many years ago I wondered what it was all about.
As far as I can tell it is a draft, but using a fixed pool of cards rather than the random selection you get from sealed boosters. This pool of cards would be arranged by the organiser and then arranged into 'booster' piles and played out as normal. Obviously this works well for Magic with only five colours to balance against each other, but would this work for Vtes?
You could use the preconstructed Starters as a base, but they tend to have little overlap. So you would probably be better off using a base set such as 3rd Edition or Keepers of Tradition (or even Jyhad/Vtes if you have lots) as they focus on standard clans and use at least some overlapping skills.
The next consideration would be the number of cards required, and taking a pointer from sealed draft where the rules have various combinations listed. For this I will take the point of no recursion, which is 8 boosters, so each player will need a crypt of 8 and a deck of 40. 8 standard boosters of 11 cards, multiplied by 5 players (minimum) gives 440 cards, which would want to be divided at a 1:5 ratio of crypt to library.
Thoughts would have to given as to the proportions of card types, such as an even spread of vampire capacities, numbers of combat cards or reaction cards etc. I have in the past used the Anarch Revolt DeckBuilder, which has Legbiters Happy Families calculator for creating a communal Jyhad deck of 36 Crypt and 270 library cards*. So this should work, although you will need to alter the number of skills used.

Now would all this trouble be worth the effort? I have no idea, so guess the best way to find out is to test it. Anyone got a whole bunch of cards to sort out into a Cube? What do you think, would it be enjoyable, or painful? Would you want to play, or even want to set it up?

Sam

*approximate numbers, have deck at home but have lost the electronic list.
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Eric Jome
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I think it is very hard to pull off any sort of draft format. If you wanted to do a draft, I wonder if you couldn't pull off a "story draft" by perhaps using a set of only 3 clans that had overlapping disciplines? The only down side to that is that I expect the decks are likely to come out fairly similar... Toreador/Brujah/something with presence/celerity/auspex/potence and then some of the different actions in those disciplines that support an intercept gun deck, a voting deck, and perhaps a bruise and bleed deck.

By limiting the scope in this way, it would be easier to make it work.

I think also you should consider looking into how Fantasy Flight handles their LCG games - it might be a lot easier to build a set of Vampire cards that work like that instead of drafting.
 
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chris mata
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if you get this working definitely post your cube contents. I have never played Vtes but this would be a great way to do it without buying a ton of cards.

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Sam Marsh
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Quote:
I think it is very hard to pull off any sort of draft format.


Vtes has a very success record at draft generally - sealed boosters of almost any number work, as the rules give modified crypt and library numbers and recursions (ashheap back to deck) for small numbers of boosters.
However you are right that this would need to have some focus on clans that overlap skills wise. I have created a large communal deck which I have played with in the past - need to post it up here.

Sam
 
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Sam Marsh
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Have finally managed to get the list of the communal deck I put
together.

Deck Name : Cube Draft PMF
Author : Sam Marsh
Description :
54x Master
33x Auspex
27x Dominate
24x Animalism
24x Obfuscate
21x Fortitude
18x Potence
18x Celerity
15x Presence
12x Protean
9x Thaumaturgy
45x disciplineless

30 Vamps, 300 Library = 30 'boosters'

Crypt [30 vampires] Capacity min: 1 max: 10 average: 5.4
------------------------------------------------------------

1x Angus the Unruled 10 ANI PRO cel for pot justicar Gangrel:
1
1x Democritus 10 DOM PRE aus cel for justicar Ventrue:
1
1x Ulugh Beg, The Wat 10 AUS DOM THA cel for pot justicar Tremere:
1
1x Cardano 9 DOM FOR THA ani aus cel prince Tremere:
1
1x Ingrid Rossler 9 ANI FOR PRO dom prince Gangrel:
2
1x Sheldon, Lord of t 9 ANI AUS OBF POT for justicar
Nosferatu:1
1x Ebanezer Roush 8 ANI OBF POT pro
Nosferatu:1
1x Selma the Repugnan 8 OBF POT ani for prince
Nosferatu:1
1x Gilbert Duane 7 AUS DOM OBF prince
Malkavian:1
1x Gunther, Beast Lor 7 ANI aus for pro Gangrel:
1
1x Timothy Crowley 7 FOR PRE ani dom prince Ventrue:
1
1x Ozmo 6 AUS dom obf
Malkavian:1
1x Rake 6 PRE aus cel pot prince Brujah:
1
1x Thomas Thorne 6 DOM ani aus cel tha Tremere:
1
1x Melissa Barton 5 cel dom for pre Ventrue:
1
1x Sabine Lafitte 5 aus dom pot tha Tremere:
1
1x Zebulon 5 OBF aus dom pro
Malkavian:1
1x Agrippina 4 OBF pot
Nosferatu:1
1x Courtland Leighton 4 dom for pre Ventrue:
1
1x Demetrius Slater 4 aus cel pre
Toreador:1
1x Dorian Strack 4 AUS cel
Toreador:1
1x Colin Flynn 3 aus cel
Toreador:1
1x Dollface 3 aus obf
Malkavian:1
1x Uma Hatch 3 cel pre Brujah:
1
1x Angel 2 cel Brujah:
1
1x Dieter Kleist 2 aus
Toreador:1
1x Lupo 2 pot Brujah:
1
1x Vliam Andor 2 ani Gangrel:
1
1x Igo the Hungry 1 pre pro Caitiff:
1
1x Smudge the Ignored 1 Caitiff:
1

Library [300 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------

Action [34]
3x Army of Rats
1x Blood Bond
2x Bum's Rush
2x Computer Hacking
2x Cryptic Mission
2x Enchant Kindred
4x Govern the Unaligned
2x Graverobbing
1x Legal Manipulations
3x Night Moves
2x Pulse of the Canaille
2x Rampage
3x Rapid Healing
3x Restoration
2x Social Charm

Action Modifier [39]
2x Bewitching Oration
7x Bonding
1x Bribes
2x Change of Target
3x Cloak the Gathering
3x Conditioning
2x Earth Control
3x Faceless Night
2x Hidden Lurker
2x Lost in Crowds
4x Seduction
4x Spying Mission
4x Threats

Combat [84]
2x Acrobatics
3x Aid from Bats
2x Aura Reading
3x Blur
1x Burst of Sunlight
2x Canine Horde
1x Claws of the Dead
2x Concealed Weapon
1x Conquer the Beast
2x Disguised Weapon
2x Dodge
2x Drawing Out the Beast
2x Earth Meld
2x Fake Out
1x Fast Hands
3x Flash
2x Gleam of Red Eyes
5x Indomitability
1x Infernal Pursuit
2x Lucky Blow
3x Majesty
2x Mighty Grapple
2x Read Intentions
2x Shattering Blow
3x Sideslip
5x Skin of Steel
3x Theft of Vitae
4x Thrown Gate
2x Thrown Sewer Lid
5x Undead Strength
5x Unflinching Persistence
2x Vampiric Speed
2x Vanish from the Mind's Eye
1x Well-Aimed Car
2x Wolf Claws

Equipment [16]
3x .44 Magnum
2x Deer Rifle
1x Flak Jacket
1x IR Goggles
1x Laptop Computer
3x Saturday-Night Special
3x Sawed-Off Shotgun
2x Sport Bike

Master [54]
6x Ascendance
1x Barrens, The
12x Blood Doll
6x Deal with the Devil
5x Effective Management
1x Elder Library
1x Elysium: The Arboretum
1x Fame
4x Gird Minions
1x Haven Uncovered
1x KRCG News Radio
1x Metro Underground
8x Minion Tap
1x Mob Connections
1x Police Department
1x Powerbase: Chicago
1x Rack, The
1x Sudden Reversal
1x Vulnerability

Political Action [11]
1x Ancilla Empowerment
1x Autarkis Persecution
1x Consanguineous Condemnation
3x Conservative Agitation
3x Kine Resources Contested
1x Parity Shift
1x Rumors of Gehenna

Reaction [58]
3x Cats' Guidance
2x Delaying Tactics
2x Dread Gaze
7x Enhanced Senses
1x Political Backlash
3x Rat's Warning
2x Second Tradition: Domain
4x Spirit's Touch
1x Surprise Influence
6x Telepathic Counter
7x Telepathic Misdirection
20x Wake with Evening's Freshness

Retainer [4]
1x Owl Companion
3x Raven Spy

Haven't tried this as a Cube Draft, but it worked well enough as a
communal deck, with the proviso that we split the crypt into high and
low caps before starting and drew two from each.

Sam
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Sam Marsh
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Have tested this with one four player game.

Drafting went well, some quick shuffling and dealing to make the 'boosters' and then we started. Only used five each so not the complete set. Decks were made quickly and game was quite balanced.
Graham managed to reinvent Malk 94, and swept through my Tremere, Steves Brujah and Geoffs Ventrue. Would be interesting to try five player and use all boosters - might help balance the decks.
Anyway everyone was keen to try again so can't be too bad!

Sam
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R. Lammert
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With available resources dwindling, cube drafting for VTES has become much, much interesting to me (and maybe to VTES players in general). So my question, Sam, did you make another cube and/or did you use the first one more than once?
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