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Subject: Getting caught and getting away rss

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Christopher Cericola
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We got to play this for the first time last night. Really enjoyed the game, but we did come into some confusion with being caught.

So guard A captures acolyte A. At this point, the acolyte marker goes on the square of capture as last known position. At this point, the guard must continue moving (if they have movement left) and continue to move to their path in the shortest route. Am I correct so far?

So, now, fast forward to acolyte A's turn.

First question - if the guard's movement caused acolyte A's to be "hidden" in the back arc is the acolyte still consider caught?

Second question - Acolyte A moves out of line of sight directly towards their cell. Does this cause a vanish marker to appear giving the guard the opportunity to chase again?

Third question - If the acolyte breaks line of site, but re-enters line of sight are they still "safe" and considered caught? Or will they now be a target that will allow the guard to break the path?

And finally, some rule clarifications.

If a guard WALKS, after the guard is done moving they roll for noise? And then after each acolyte moves, the acolyte rolls for noise as well?

The U-Turn cards are one use each? So the guards could only reverse routes twice? And routes are discarded after they are done so they cannot be reused?

And finally - if an acolyte gets their key, can they go through ALL doors or just the doors that match the colour of the key?
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Frederic Moyersoen
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Here are the answers :

First question : you are considered to be caught as long as you keep your marker visible on the gameboard. This obliges you to continue moving back towards your cell. On the other hand, you are safe and cannot be captured again.

Second question : No. At the moment that you disappear you do not place a vanished marker. In this way, the guard may not catch you immediately again.

Third question : You are still safe. See answer on question one.

Clarifications :
Yes, twice a turn, you roll for noise. Once the guard can hear noise, once the novice can make noise.

Each path card can only be used once. So, maximum two U-turns. Cards are discarded after use.

Yes, any key is a master key, which allows you to pass through any closed door.
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Shardeen Mehdi
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ah i learnt something new again

So as long as a novice appears on the guard's line of sight, she is considered caught? even if the novice is 6 dots away?
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Christopher Cericola
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Frederic Moyersoen wrote:
Here are the answers :

First question : you are considered to be caught as long as you keep your marker visible on the gameboard. This obliges you to continue moving back towards your cell. On the other hand, you are safe and cannot be captured again.

Second question : No. At the moment that you disappear you do not place a vanished marker. In this way, the guard may not catch you immediately again.

Third question : You are still safe. See answer on question one.

Clarifications :
Yes, twice a turn, you roll for noise. Once the guard can hear noise, once the novice can make noise.

Each path card can only be used once. So, maximum two U-turns. Cards are discarded after use.

Yes, any key is a master key, which allows you to pass through any closed door.


Thanks for your help! Two more if you don't mind.

First - if an acolyte enter LOS but gets out, you place a vanished marker ONLY on the last known spot?

Second - if the acolyte enters, and remains in line of site, are they considered caught? If not, do you put out the marker or a vanish token?

Thanks so much for your help. We knew we were close, but a 2nd set of eyes (well, a 2nd mind) is a great help.
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Shardeen Mehdi
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1) you put two tokens, one of the spot she saw you and one on the direction u took

2) if i read frederic reply righ if a novice appears on the line of sigth, she is considered caught. even if the guard passes by a novice she is also considered caught

not
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Frederic Moyersoen
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colourblind wrote:
ah i learnt something new again :D

So as long as a novice appears on the guard's line of sight, she is considered caught? even if the novice is 6 dots away?


No, when you are more than 6 dots away, you are always out of line-of-sight.
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Frederic Moyersoen
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CCericola wrote:
Frederic Moyersoen wrote:
Here are the answers :

First question : you are considered to be caught as long as you keep your marker visible on the gameboard. This obliges you to continue moving back towards your cell. On the other hand, you are safe and cannot be captured again.

Second question : No. At the moment that you disappear you do not place a vanished marker. In this way, the guard may not catch you immediately again.

Third question : You are still safe. See answer on question one.

Clarifications :
Yes, twice a turn, you roll for noise. Once the guard can hear noise, once the novice can make noise.

Each path card can only be used once. So, maximum two U-turns. Cards are discarded after use.

Yes, any key is a master key, which allows you to pass through any closed door.


Thanks for your help! Two more if you don't mind.

First - if an acolyte enter LOS but gets out, you place a vanished marker ONLY on the last known spot?

Second - if the acolyte enters, and remains in line of site, are they considered caught? If not, do you put out the marker or a vanish token?

Thanks so much for your help. We knew we were close, but a 2nd set of eyes (well, a 2nd mind) is a great help.


First, you must show the complete move while being in the line-of-sight. Then, you place a vanished marker behind the last known dot (= always in-between 2 dots).

Second, you are only caught when the guard halts on the same spot as the acolyte. Being seen is not enough. When you are seen, you must immediately place your novice marker. When you move out of the line-of-sight, you place a vanished marker. In fact, it is all very logical, isn't?
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Shardeen Mehdi
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so if a novice appears on a guard's line of sight, she is not considered caught until the guard moves to the same spot as her?

but is she passes by the novice she is considered caught?
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Christopher Cericola
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Frederic Moyersoen wrote:
Here are the answers :
Second, you are only caught when the guard halts on the same spot as the acolyte. Being seen is not enough. When you are seen, you must immediately place your novice marker. When you move out of the line-of-sight, you place a vanished marker. In fact, it is all very logical, isn't?


Couldn't this lead to endless catching? The acolyte moves out of site, places the vanish token, and then the guard can catch the acolyte again.

If I'm not mistaken, the acolyte only gets four movement (after being caught) while the guard can have up to six. There are very few cases where the acolyte could get far enough away without running into line of sight again on the guard's turn. In fact, this could lead to acolyte camping.
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Frederic Moyersoen
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colourblind wrote:
so if a novice appears on a guard's line of sight, she is not considered caught until the guard moves to the same spot as her?

but is she passes by the novice she is considered caught?


As soon as the guard and the novice are together on the same spot, the novice is caught. The guard may continue moving.
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Frederic Moyersoen
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CCericola wrote:
Frederic Moyersoen wrote:
Here are the answers :
Second, you are only caught when the guard halts on the same spot as the acolyte. Being seen is not enough. When you are seen, you must immediately place your novice marker. When you move out of the line-of-sight, you place a vanished marker. In fact, it is all very logical, isn't?


Couldn't this lead to endless catching? The acolyte moves out of site, places the vanish token, and then the guard can catch the acolyte again.

If I'm not mistaken, the acolyte only gets four movement (after being caught) while the guard can have up to six. There are very few cases where the acolyte could get far enough away without running into line of sight again on the guard's turn. In fact, this could lead to acolyte camping.


Do not forget that when your card is on the "caught"-side, you may not be caught again. If you fear that you can be caught again once you disappear, you keep your card on the "caught"-side. On the other hand, this obliges you to continue walking towards your cell.
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Shardeen Mehdi
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When the novice is caught the first time by the guard, she has to move towards the direction of her cell, and she DOES NOT place the vanish token nor the sound token when she is moving. i think its on page 3 of the rules
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David Albin
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Mr Wung is correct, for the same reason that novices get an extra move at the beginning of the game: to give the novice(s) a head start.
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Itai Perez
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On the subject I have another question. So as long as the novice, after being caught wants to be "safe", she keeps her card on the caught side AND her token on the map, right ?

Now, the rules states that a guard can move freely if she sees a vanished token OR a novice. So does the caught novice going to her room counts as such and enables the guard to move where she wants ?

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Shardeen Mehdi
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the guard can move freely if she suspects there is someone nearby. doesnt necessarily need to have a vanished token or noise token for her to divert from her path/
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Frederic Moyersoen
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Itai wrote:
On the subject I have another question. So as long as the novice, after being caught wants to be "safe", she keeps her card on the caught side AND her token on the map, right ?

Now, the rules states that a guard can move freely if she sees a vanished token OR a novice. So does the caught novice going to her room counts as such and enables the guard to move where she wants ?



As you might expect, "being caught" is an exception on the general rule. Thus, because you are "safe" as a novice, the guard must return to her path.
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Frederic Moyersoen
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colourblind wrote:
the guard can move freely if she suspects there is someone nearby. doesnt necessarily need to have a vanished token or noise token for her to divert from her path/


This is, of course, completely wrong. During the whole the game the guards suspect that there are novices nearby. Nevertheless, they must follow their path unless they hear or see something.
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Marcel Kaul
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Frederic Moyersoen wrote:

Do not forget that when your card is on the "caught"-side, you may not be caught again. If you fear that you can be caught again once you disappear, you keep your card on the "caught"-side. On the other hand, this obliges you to continue walking towards your cell.


The rules say that when I'm out of side AFTER my movement I return my marker to the cell and flip the card. This sounds like a general rule.

So if I don't want to do that, I can leave my marker on the board and continue moving to my cell? But when exactly can I choose to disappear agein, always AFTER my movement or also BEFORE movement (If I am out of sight). So this might come to the situation that there is a marker on the board that cannot be seen by the abtess/prioress.....
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Frederic Moyersoen
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CaptainGen wrote:
Frederic Moyersoen wrote:

Do not forget that when your card is on the "caught"-side, you may not be caught again. If you fear that you can be caught again once you disappear, you keep your card on the "caught"-side. On the other hand, this obliges you to continue walking towards your cell.


The rules say that when I'm out of side AFTER my movement I return my marker to the cell and flip the card. This sounds like a general rule.

So if I don't want to do that, I can leave my marker on the board and continue moving to my cell? But when exactly can I choose to disappear agein, always AFTER my movement or also BEFORE movement (If I am out of sight). So this might come to the situation that there is a marker on the board that cannot be seen by the abtess/prioress.....


Let's answer this question from a game design's point of view.
In the first version of the rules, the caught novice had to move back to her cell during one turn and was safe for one turn only. However, this caused a big problem in the particular case that the shortest way back to her cell was similar as the track that the guard was following. Mostly, the novice had very few escape options and was captured immediately again.
Therefore, I had to add an extra rule to avoid this embarrassing situation. So, now you are safe as long as you move back in the right direction. According to my playtests, no one moves back towards his cell during more than 2 turns. Because by doing so, you would lose 4 game turns : 2 to move back to your cell and 2 to return to your first position.

So, when do you remove your novice marker? Immediately when moving out of sight.
When do you place the "Vanished" marker? Immediately when moving out of sight, unless your card is still on the "caught" side.
Important : when you leave your card on the "caught" side, the guard player assumes that you are still walking in the direction of your cell.
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Frederic Moyersoen wrote:
So, when do you remove your novice marker? Immediately when moving out of sight.
When do you place the "Vanished" marker? Immediately when moving out of sight, unless your card is still on the "caught" side.
Important : when you leave your card on the "caught" side, the guard player assumes that you are still walking in the direction of your cell.


Does that mean that I may let my card on the "caught" side (making me uncatchable and forcing me to walk toward my cell), even if I've moved out of sight and removed my novice marker ?

If yes, when I decide to flip my card on the run side, when exactly may I do it :
- at the beginnig of my movement phase ?
- at the end of my movement phase ?

Thanks,
King Bing

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Frederic Moyersoen
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Yes,you can remain "caught" when moving out of sight.

You must flip your card to the "on the run" side at last at the end of your movement phase.
In fact, you can do it at any time during your turn, because the guards must wait their turn before being able to react and play again.
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owen oliver
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The question that arose during our play is: Can you move toward your cell one or two spaces (with the "Caught" side up) until you are out of line of sight, and then, once you are out of line of site, flip to "on the run" and continue the last 2-3 spaces away from your cell? OR if you start your turn caught, do you have to continue walking to your cell for the entire turn?

It seems, according to the wording of your answer, that you have to spend your entire "caught" turn walking back towards your cell. I just wanted to clarify since you also say you can flip to "on the run" any time during your turn.

Frederic Moyersoen wrote:
Yes,you can remain "caught" when moving out of sight.

You must flip your card to the "on the run" side at last at the end of your movement phase.
In fact, you can do it at any time during your turn, because the guards must wait their turn before being able to react and play again.
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Frederic Moyersoen
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You can change direction at any time, when being out-of-sight.
So, you do not need to walk a complete turn towards your cell, if you are out-of-sight in the meantime.
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Bradley Hays
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royaljayhawk wrote:
The question that arose during our play is: Can you move toward your cell one or two spaces (with the "Caught" side up) until you are out of line of sight, and then, once you are out of line of site, flip to "on the run" and continue the last 2-3 spaces away from your cell? OR if you start your turn caught, do you have to continue walking to your cell for the entire turn?

It seems, according to the wording of your answer, that you have to spend your entire "caught" turn walking back towards your cell. I just wanted to clarify since you also say you can flip to "on the run" any time during your turn.

Frederic Moyersoen wrote:
Yes,you can remain "caught" when moving out of sight.

You must flip your card to the "on the run" side at last at the end of your movement phase.
In fact, you can do it at any time during your turn, because the guards must wait their turn before being able to react and play again.


I was teaching the previously mentioned game with Owen. My interpretation of the rules was that as soon as a "caught" novice moved out of sight, through a door (for example), they could head in which ever direction they chose (in other words, not toward their cell). But we decided to leave the card on the "caught" side through the following guard movement phase. That way, the "caught" novice could not be immediately re-caught. Otherwise, if the guard should hear a noise by another novice, they could chase after the novice they had just caught (since they are not obligated to go in the direction of the noise) and capture them again (since this novice would now be "on the run"). This seemed unfair. So we kept the card on the "caught" side through the following guard phase.

At the beginning of the next novice phase they would flip their card to "on the run" and play a regular turn. From then on, of course, they could be caught again. This seemed most thematic to the game, which we're really loving, by the way.

We also love Saboteur, and the fact that both games play up to 8 people.
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Frederic Moyersoen
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That's an interesting idea.

On the other hand, if you are immediately caught again, it is not "unfair". You took the risk not to continue moving towards your cell and you had simply bad luck. Pity for you.
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