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Subject: Cheesy tactic to avoid deaths? rss

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Drake Coker
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With a few games under my belt now, I'm re-reading the rules to make sure I have them all correct. I ran across this obscure case...

Quote:
"When you play a Move card, if the Section Leader can Move but some of the Soldiers in the Section cannot Move, or you do not want them to Move, they separate from the Section, remain in the same Terrain card, and form Unled Sections."


then a bit later...

Quote:
"If a Move is in reaction to an Attack or Counter-Attack, the Section Leader and the Soldiers still with him suffer the Attack or Counter-Attack."


(Dan, I think the phrase "or Counter-Attack" is a typo in this sentence since Counter-Attacks cannot be reacted to?)

In cases where a Section is receiving a devastating attack that is likely to wipe out the Section, and the Section can still act, a valid tactic would seem to be to react to the Attack with a Move and just move the Section Leader only. Then he would die and the rest of the Section would turn into Unled Sections, but be otherwise unharmed. If you had your field promotion left to spend, this would be quick to recover from.

This feels pretty cheesy though, and I'm wondering if (a) I am understanding this correctly and (b) if it is an intended effect of the design.

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Ubergeek
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I'm reading it differently so an official answer would be in order.

If you move in reaction to the attack, the Leader (and any units that move with him) would not be killed. What was left in place from the original section was the target of the attack and would be affected. So if you moved your leader in reaction to the attack, he would survive and the rest remaining would be hit (not a very leadership like tactic to use).

I need to check the rules however to see if the attack affects everyone in the terrain, or just a designated section. If it's the terrain, then moving is irrelevant since everyone still stays in the same terrain and would suffer the effects of the attack.
 
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Lacko Bardosy
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Quote:

What was left in place from the original section was the target of the attack and would be affected.


I'm sure you wrong. The target is always a section and if section move to an other terrian, the section remain the target.
I guess Drake has right: the target is te original targeting section (the leader) and the unlead (new) section survive.
 
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Vasilis
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Olvenskol wrote:
With a few games under my belt now, I'm re-reading the rules to make sure I have them all correct. I ran across this obscure case...

Quote:
"When you play a Move card, if the Section Leader can Move but some of the Soldiers in the Section cannot Move, or you do not want them to Move, they separate from the Section, remain in the same Terrain card, and form Unled Sections."


then a bit later...

Quote:
"If a Move is in reaction to an Attack or Counter-Attack, the Section Leader and the Soldiers still with him suffer the Attack or Counter-Attack."


(Dan, I think the phrase "or Counter-Attack" is a typo in this sentence since Counter-Attacks cannot be reacted to?)

In cases where a Section is receiving a devastating attack that is likely to wipe out the Section, and the Section can still act, a valid tactic would seem to be to react to the Attack with a Move and just move the Section Leader only. Then he would die and the rest of the Section would turn into Unled Sections, but be otherwise unharmed. If you had your field promotion left to spend, this would be quick to recover from.

This feels pretty cheesy though, and I'm wondering if (a) I am understanding this correctly and (b) if it is an intended effect of the design.



I believe you are correct in your interpretation and we need a clarification on this.

In order to avoid this incredibly gamey tactic the sentence about choosing who to move with the section leader or not, should be clarified.

My fix would be that when you move the Leader as a reaction to an Attack, then you don't get to choose unpinned soldiers to stay back. This will fix it nicely I think.

Let's wait for Dan to clarify this. Dan, if you are reading this, see also here for more questions that need answers meeple :

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/508072/questions-about-s...-
 
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Dan Verssen
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It is possible to move in reaction to a counter-attack, but it is rare:

A section moves and plays a Move Out. The enemy reacts by shooting at the section. The section then moves again.

You are right in that you can focus the attack on the leader in the manner you stated. From what I've seen it doesn't happen often because a section that can still act can usually do something to defend itself.

Even when it can't do something useful, its better to spread the damage over many soldiers. It would also leave the remaining guys unled, which can only be fixed once per battle with a promotion.

So, your idea can be used, and can be useful, but not very often.

The only time I can see it really being useful is for a section that can still act and the incoming FP is big enough to kill all the guys in the section no matter what they do. In that case, the leader stands-up in a heroic sacrifice and takes one for the team.
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DanVerssen wrote:
It is possible to move in reaction to a counter-attack, but it is rare:

A section moves and plays a Move Out. The enemy reacts by shooting at the section. The section then moves again.

You are right in that you can focus the attack on the leader in the manner you stated. From what I've seen it doesn't happen often because a section that can still act can usually do something to defend itself.

Even when it can't do something useful, its better to spread the damage over many soldiers. It would also leave the remaining guys unled, which can only be fixed once per battle with a promotion.

So, your idea can be used, and can be useful, but not very often.

The only time I can see it really being useful is for a section that can still act and the incoming FP is big enough to kill all the guys in the section no matter what they do. In that case, the leader stands-up in a heroic sacrifice and takes one for the team.


So, it is a viable tactic to sacrifice your Leader in some cases. OK. Seems weird though.

Thank you Dan.
Now let's talk about my other questions in the other thread because I want to play solitaire again tonight... laugh
 
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Drake Coker
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Thanks Dan!

Quote:
It is possible to move in reaction to a counter-attack, but it is rare:

A section moves and plays a Move Out. The enemy reacts by shooting at the section. The section then moves again.


I don't see how this applies. The reaction to the original Move is called an "Attack" in the rules and not a "Counter-Attack". While it is just terminology, I think it is correct to say that the thing called a "Counter-Attack" in the rules is never reacted to. Unless I'm just not seeing it

A glance at the flow-chart on the player aid shows my point... Counter-Attack is always a terminal node in each of the little trees.

Use of Move Out is irrelevant: the effect is to flip the Acted counter back to its Unacted side, but all that does is allow for the possibility of a new Action/Reaction sequence and does not affect the resolution of the original Action otherwise.

It's all just semantics, though. If I am correct, then the rules cover a case that never occurs. *shrug*

Quote:
So, your idea can be used, and can be useful, but not very often.


It would have been used twice last night if we had realized it. But we're still newbies and making newbie mistakes, and this game is very unforgiving of mistakes


 
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Dan Verssen
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David - Oops, you're right, the enemy attack would be an "Attack", not a "Counter-Attack".
 
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Drake Coker
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DanVerssen wrote:
David - Oops, you're right, the enemy attack would be an "Attack", not a "Counter-Attack".


Drake. Pleased to make your virtual acquaintance. I've been a fan of your games for years.

And what the heck are you doing answering questions at 2 AM? It's not healthy
 
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Dan Verssen
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Drake,

Thank you! Great to meet you also!

DVG - We Never Sleep!

 
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I'd also like to express my thanks for clearing that up. My initial read of it was way off the mark.
 
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