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Subject: Order / Battled Tokens Question rss

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Jesse Rasmussen
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Hi everyone,

Maybe I'm missing something (which is entirely possible) but I don't understand the Order/Battled Tokens. I've seen them available for download here on BGG and I understand that they're used in Vassal...and I recognize that they are used to designate which units you have given an order to, and then after they battled you flip the token over to represent that.

My question is, why do you flip the tokens over to the battled side? I can see the benefit of marking which units you've ordered (so you don't forget any orders) but why not just remove the tokens after they battle?

Sorry if this is obvious! Thanks for any help...
 
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Dan C
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I've always just used dice. Put a die on the ordered unit and remove after it has battled (or if it can't battle).
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Jason
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I use those little glass markers. Black for "can't do anything further" and blue for "may battle still".
 
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Troy Davis
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Here's my 2 cents:

1. Place token, ordered side up, beside all units that are ordered.
2. Once a unit is moved, place token, battle side up, to indicate unit is ready for battle.
3. Once all units have moved, remove the token when a unit has battled.

In this way, you know when all the ordered units have moved and, finally, when a particular unit has battled.

I hope that helps.
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René Christensen
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Are we still talking about Memoir'44 and how many units do you move?
I have played Memoir '44 for 2-3 years now and never had trouble remembering which units has been moved and which units still can fire.
whistle
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Troy Davis
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Slotracer wrote:
Are we still talking about Memoir'44 and how many units do you move?
I have played Memoir '44 for 2-3 years now and never had trouble remembering which units has been moved and which units still can fire.
whistle


It becomes more difficult to remember ordered units when playing Overlord. Anyway, I'm getting older and my memory isn't what it used to be so I'm all for making it easier on myself when playing standard M44 too!
 
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Troy Davis
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I've posted a sheet of order / battle tokens that fit nicely on bingo chips. I'll let you know once it is approved. Over and out.
 
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Jesse Rasmussen
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Thanks for the help everyone. It looks like different people treat the tokens in different ways, which is what I had expected. Could someone who plays Vassal tell me how the program handles the tokens? Thanks.
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Clexton27
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Hey Jesse,
When you are playing online with Vassal you can't literally point to the units you are ordering, so the program allows you to select the units you are ordering and highlight them. They now remain highlighted for the remainder of your turn.
You then move the units or not. Once you have completed movement, if you have units that cannot battle, you may use the (blue) BATTLED marker to indicate that their turn has ended. Now you mark one at a time the highlighted unit that you want to attack in battle. A (red) TARGET token is placed on the unit you want to attack and you mark the unit that is attacking with a (yellow) ATTACKER marker. This is all done so that what lacks in verbal communication is demonstrated in visual cues. After each attacking unit (yellow) is done it's battle the (blue) BATTLED marker is placed. It all really goes pretty fast and anyone who has played a bit knows the routine and moves through it quickly. Once all battling is complete, a card is drawn and a button {END'S TURN} is pressed. It clears the board of all markers and highlights. You really ought to try it some time Jesse. I am sure you will find many instructors - SamE, Jjaz, Tank Commander, myself, etc.
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Oliver Graf
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I uploaded some Order/Battled markers... in retrospect after some games with them, I perhaps would now make Order/MayBattle markers, cause in reality the 'Battled' result is normally represented by removing the marker from the board.
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Bob Hansen
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I had custom Moved/Battled tokens made through Litko. I use them for all the Commands and Colors games.
 
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Jesse Rasmussen
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kixdsky wrote:
I had custom Moved/Battled tokens made through Litko. I use them for all the Commands and Colors games.


And how do you use them? Do they go on units who had moved and then on units that who finished attacking? Or units who moved but can still attack? Or units who moved their full distance and can't attack any more?
 
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Jesse Rasmussen
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Hey James,

For some reason I'm just not interested in Vassal. It might be because I've read about people who get kicked off in the middle of games (though I haven't heard of that happening for a while) or it might be because I would have to download so many files and save them to special places on my computer and such. I'm content to wait for the DoW computer version and play against friends around here ftf for now.

I also don't have a lot of time to play because of teaching and various Memoir projects I'm working on. So thank you for the very kind invitation but I'll have to pass for now.
 
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Oliver Graf
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rasmussen81 wrote:

For some reason I'm just not interested in Vassal. It might be because I've read about people who get kicked off in the middle of games (though I haven't heard of that happening for a while) or it might be because I would have to download so many files and save them to special places on my computer and such.


I can imagine the the last thing is true for a normal user.

VASSAL was our gateway for Memoir. With it Camelorn, marauder and myself could try out Memoir and Battlelore without buying anything. After some games we saw that we like it and that we prefer the tactics of Memoir over its fantasy variant, and so my bag is full now I hope DoW won't ban the VASSAL module if they come out with their software, cause they would loose this free player magnet.

Back to the tokens: I did choose the blue cross (battled) and the yellow asterisk (attacker) for my tokens:


They stand up very well, thats a main feature to make them plain and colorful (I first experimented with camo designs -- no good idea). VASSAL has no symbol for 'ordered', cause it just highlights the unit ordered with some brackets. Perhaps I make some new with asterisk and exclamation mark?

Why did I make them? While teaching some friends the game I realized that sometimes they confuse their units between ordering, moving and battling (i.e. they battle with units not ordered). With the tokens this got easier. I helps you with an assault in a crowded sector and with overlord (to my shame I must admit I yet have to play a overlord game) I imagine it will be helpful, too.
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Dan C
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Quote:
Are we still talking about Memoir'44 and how many units do you move?
I have played Memoir '44 for 2-3 years now and never had trouble remembering which units has been moved and which units still can fire.


If it's only one or two it's not a problem, but if it's an Assault or even three or four in close mixed terrain... it's just easier to survey (and for my opponent to check me) who should move first to clear space for the next move, who has not yet fired, who should fire first in order to catch retreating units with another unit etc. When six units are moving through terrain affecting move/battling and some end on it, and some start on it... it can get confusing.
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Jesse Rasmussen
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The reason I'm asking is because I was wondering if the tokens could be helpful with my students when they're playing. They know the rules really well but still sometimes forget who they ordered and who can still attack. I'll also be moving schools so a whole new group of kids will need to learn the game and I wondered if the tokens would help them.

Do the tokens take a lot of time to use in the battles...putting them in place, switching them for the other tokens, picking them up, etc? I'm afraid they might just be another thing to keep track of and that their benefit wouldn't outweigh the focus it would take to use them. Any thoughts? Would the tokens be good for 4th and 5th grade students (9-11 year olds)?
 
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Oliver Graf
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rasmussen81 wrote:
Do the tokens take a lot of time to use in the battles...putting them in place, switching them for the other tokens, picking them up, etc? I'm afraid they might just be another thing to keep track of and that their benefit wouldn't outweigh the focus it would take to use them. Any thoughts? Would the tokens be good for 4th and 5th grade students (9-11 year olds)?


I think with two-sided tokens (Order/MayBattle) you can teach your students the structure of a Memoir'44 turn very good. The most common problem is that a newbie will do multiple things with one unit (move, battle) where he or she should really first order all units, then move some of those units, then battle with the units that still may do so. With the tokens each of those actions is represented by a token place/swap/remove action. So that should be a pretty good mnemonic to remember the order of actions.
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Jesse Rasmussen
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Troy, I saw the tokens that you uploaded down in the File section. They look good! I think the directions you gave of marking units who are ready to move and ready to attack makes sense...instead of marking units who have already moved and attacked. I'll try to figure out how to use these ideas in my Memoir '44 History Club.

Thanks for the help, everyone!
 
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