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Subject: Black Market / Smuggler rss

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Andrew Dalmau
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If I purchase something from the black market, can the next player use smuggler to gain the same card? If so, does he just dig it out of the box since it isn't actually on the table?
 
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Roberta Yang
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Smuggler can no more gain a card outside of the Supply than can Workshop, Ironworks, or your normal Buy.
 
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David desJardins
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OK, but what if you buy a card with the Black Market, manage to draw it into your hand (by reshuffling your discards) later in the turn, then play Ambassador to return that card to the Supply, but every other player plays a Moat so none of them get the card. Then there is a copy of the card that you bought with Black Market in the Supply. So can the next player gain it with Smugglers? ninja
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Drew Spencer
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DaviddesJ wrote:
OK, but what if you buy a card with the Black Market, manage to draw it into your hand (by reshuffling your discards) later in the turn, then play Ambassador to return that card to the Supply, but every other player plays a Moat so none of them get the card. Then there is a copy of the card that you bought with Black Market in the Supply. So can the next player gain it with Smugglers? ninja


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Matthew Saloff
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DaviddesJ wrote:
OK, but what if you buy a card with the Black Market, manage to draw it into your hand (by reshuffling your discards) later in the turn, then play Ambassador to return that card to the Supply, but every other player plays a Moat so none of them get the card. Then there is a copy of the card that you bought with Black Market in the Supply. So can the next player gain it with Smugglers? :ninja:


I was just wondering about something similar to this the other day as well. It brings up a lot of questions actually. Can you even try to return a Black Marketed card to the supply with Ambassador since those cards were never part of the supply, nor have a pile spot to begin with? Or does it create a new supply pile of one for that card? Basically, can you add supply pile spots? And then if you can add extra supply pile spots, if the Ambassador forced someone to take that card, or if everyone had Moated and then someone purchases that one card on a later turn, does that new supply pile of one then count as an empty Supply pile for end of game conditions?
 
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Loc Nguyen
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The pile that you return it to is the black market deck itself making it available for any other black market user. The real question is whether you put it on top or the bottom of the deck. Although, most likely it is the top based on the wording of the Ambassador.
 
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Matthew Saloff
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Da L0C wrote:
The pile that you return it to is the black market deck itself making it available for any other black market user. The real question is whether you put it on top or the bottom of the deck. Although, most likely it is the top based on the wording of the Ambassador.


That's wrong I think because Ambassador says 'return a card to the supply'. The rule sheet for Black Market says the Black Market deck is not a supply pile.
 
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Donald X.
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Mattr0polis wrote:
I was just wondering about something similar to this the other day as well. It brings up a lot of questions actually. Can you even try to return a Black Marketed card to the supply with Ambassador since those cards were never part of the supply, nor have a pile spot to begin with? Or does it create a new supply pile of one for that card? Basically, can you add supply pile spots? And then if you can add extra supply pile spots, if the Ambassador forced someone to take that card, or if everyone had Moated and then someone purchases that one card on a later turn, does that new supply pile of one then count as an empty Supply pile for end of game conditions?

From the slightly more complete FAQ that will someday be up at RGG somewhere:

Quote:
Cards purchased with Black Market do not have corresponding supply piles, and so cannot be returned to their piles. For example if you use Ambassador (from Dominion: Seaside) on a card you got with Black Market, that card will stay in your hand.

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Roberta Yang
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donaldx wrote:

Quote:
Cards purchased with Black Market do not have corresponding supply piles, and so cannot be returned to their piles. For example if you use Ambassador (from Dominion: Seaside) on a card you got with Black Market, that card will stay in your hand.



That makes sense. The Ambassador says to "return" the revealed card(s), and since Black Market cards never came from the Supply in the first place, the instruction to "return" them cannot be resolved, so nothing happens.
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Matthew Saloff
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donaldx wrote:

From the slightly more complete FAQ that will someday be up at RGG somewhere:

Quote:
Cards purchased with Black Market do not have corresponding supply piles, and so cannot be returned to their piles. For example if you use Ambassador (from Dominion: Seaside) on a card you got with Black Market, that card will stay in your hand.



Awesome! Thanks Donald!
 
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