Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
58 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » OLD BGGBlogs (do not use)

Subject: Bouldergames: All buyers need to be aware of this rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ron Hetrick
United States
Jacksonville
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To the rest of my fellow BGGers. I am a frequent buyer of games from multiple stores. I have just concluded the most insulting and negative bit of business with Boulder Games. A little background before you read these e-mails I received back from them. I ordered two games from them. They had one but did not notify me that they did not have the other until I e-mailed them 3 days later. When I tried to do another game instead they started to get rude. Here are the e-mails exchanged. Go to the bottom and read them up to get the correct history. BTW, Jim is from Boulder Games.

hi ron,

i don't have time to keep reading this crap and have no intention of reading whatever you have to say this time. time to go back on your meds and take your business elsewhere.

thx,
jim


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Ron Hetrick"
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:32:20 -0400

>
>There is no way you could be serious about what you said.
>
>You say in the e-mail "we were waiting for you to use the coupon", then
>later say (to paraphrase) "we sent your order and you received a refund"
>after stating in an earlier e-mail that it was EITHER the "refund" or
>the "coupon". Do you want me to pull that e-mail also? Ok, no
>problem. Here it is.
>>>> >From: "shipping"
>>>> >To: "Ron & Kim Hetrick"
>>>> >Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 5:26 PM
>>>> >Subject: Re: Update please
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Mr. Hetrick,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hello again, let me try to explain this once more, we
>>>> >> can
>>send
>>>> >you a email with a $23 Certificate enclosed, so that you can use
>>>> >it to
>>>add a
>>>> >game to your order that is waiting to be shipped OR save it for
>>>> >next
>>time
>>>> >you wish to make an order. please understand this is why we
>>>> >normaly
>>>include
>>>> >a refund via check with the order as it ships.

>
>Webster's definition of a refund: 1. A repayment of funds. Saying
>"refund via check" fits the definition, certificate does not.
>
>Why are you arguing with me? The customer is always right, especially
>this time. With each of your responses you do nothing more than prove
>how terrible you are with your repeat customers.
>
>I've sent the contents of our exchange to three friends of mine who
>were long time customers of yours and had originally recommended you to
>me last year. They are as baffled by your responses as I am and, as I,
>have chosen to terminate any further orders with you. Is this what you
>wanted? Bad publicity? Why? It would have been so much easier to
>accept responsibility and complete the order than to argue with your
>repeat customer. Also, a simple phone call the day of the order to say
>"Gee Mr. Hetrick, we don't have Ark of the Covenant, what would you
>like us to do?, No problem sir, we'll change that order to Attika and
>ship it tomorrow, thanks for your repeat business."
>
>I wonder why the other 5 online game companies I buy from frequently
>think I'm a wonderful customer?
>
>Please send the check. These ridiculous exchanges are over.
>
>Ron

what?!! it clearly says you've (which is a contraction for "you have" as in past tense!) received a refund. the refund was by coupon.

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From:
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:43:24 +0000

>Wow, this confirms what I knew all along.
>This is YOUR e-mail to me, check out the date and what you SAID YOU
>WERE
GOING TO DO!
>
>From: "bouldergames"
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:51 AM
>Subject: Re: FWD: Re: Update please
>
>
>> hi ron,
>>
>> we were waiting for you to place the order using the coupon that i
>> sent
>you so we could combine the orders but we still don't have that order
>so will send the order as is today. you've received a refund for the
>missing game plus shipping.
>>
>> thx,
>> jim
>> bouldergames.com

>
>First of all, you didn't ship ANYTHING until August 9th. Then you
>didn't
send the refund check. Next time, ask your shipping department to actually READ e-mails. Next time, go the one small extra step of HELPING the customer by entering the order YOURSELF. That may sound crazy to a company that hates its REPEAT customers but it goes a long way. I would say you run your business poorly but that would fail to reach the depths you have acheived with your responses to me.
>
>I can't believe that you would have the audacity to attack a customer
>who
did EVERYTHING reasonable to see this through. You never provided a phone number after repeated requests and never HELPED at all!!
>
>Being defensive and rude is not customer service. Saying what you did
>to
an executive in a Fortune 500 company is also not good business practice.
It's unprofessional.
>
>Ron
>
>>
>> From: "bouldergames"
>> Date: 2004/08/12 Thu PM 02:50:22 GMT
>> To: "Ron & Kim Hetrick"
>> Subject: Re: Now what?!
>>
>>
>> hi ron,
>>
>> no one has been "ripped off" and i resent your accusation. you can
>> get
you pampers in a knot all you want but this whole mess is YOUR fault.
>>
>> your order would have shipped within the normal 2 day time limit with
>> a
refund check, but you wanted to change the order, so we issued you a coupon for the game that was out of stock with a generous extra amount to more than cover the difference in shipping and waited for you to place the order for the new game. Simple enough. THAT'S ALL YOU HAD TO DO!, but instead you go off about no way to use a coupon (which hundreds of other people use without a problem) and try to make it look like it's our fault that the order that was (AS REQUESTED BY YOU!) waiting for your next order hadn't shipped! we shipped the order and you still have the coupon and we're still waiting for you to order attika. to my knowledge there was never anything from you telling us that you had changed your mind and would not be ordering attika and wanted a refund check instead.
>>
>> i am canceling the coupon and sending you a refund check for the
>> price of
the game and the amount of shipping it added to the original order.
>>
>> thx,
>> jim

>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>> From: "Ron & Kim Hetrick"
>> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:46:50 -0400
>>
>> >Jim -
>> >
>> >I got my shipment yesterday. It contained the 2 Pirate's Coves
>> >which
was good.
>> >
>> >What it did NOT contain was NEITHER:
>> >The refund check
>> >NOR
>> >Attika (which we had originally discussed in three e-mails was want
>> >I
wanted to order with your strange coupon/certificate system in place of the refund check).
>> >
>> >So, unless you credited my credit card, and there was NO indication
>> >of
this in the package, this would mean that after 6 back and forth e-mails and three weeks late shipping, you still didn't do what you said you were going to do and have now ripped me off.
>> >
>> >Put yourself in my shoes before you respond. This has been the
>> >worse
customer service interaction I have had since I started buying from the internet some 8 years ago.
>> >
>> >Ron
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♪ Isaäc Bickërstaff ♫
United States
Greer
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Entropy Seminar:
badge
The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekund lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot.
Avatar
Wow, that's a lot of dirty laundry.

Boulder (in my experience) has always been a bit distant in their communications, but I'm not sure that all of this needs to be aired publicly. It reads more like a pissing contest than anything else.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Philip Wieland
United States
Homewood
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I disagree Isaac. The only way to correct terrible customer service (of which this is an obvious example) is to share the information with as many people as possible. When Bouldergames starts getting fewer sales, then maybe they will be alerted to their terrible service! I, for one, am appalled at the way they interacted with a customer. I also have bought games from bouldergames, but will do so no longer. We do have a choice in how we spend our money, and life is too short to put up with this kind of nonsense.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Malachi Brown
United States
Hermitage
TN
flag msg tools
It's turtles all the way down.
badge
“Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself.”
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Interesting
I agree with Verkisto.

I'd also recommend that if you're going to say something negative about a person or company, that it be as clear an concise as possible. Reading these emails is a bit difficult and end up being unclear as to who had done what to whom and when.

If I read it correctly, you ordered two games. One of which was out of stock/unavailable. When you found that out, you asked for a refund of some kind. Due to a string of misunderstandings, things didn't work out the way you wanted/expected.

If I were in your position and wanted to write a journal about it, I probably would have said something like, "After a string of disappointing results in dealing with Boulder Games customer service, I have decided that I will take my business elsewhere in the future. Buyer Beware."

Of course, given that all three or four of my transactions with them have been fine and the biggest complaint I have heard besides this one has to do with inadequate packing, I will probably still order from them when it suits me. *shurg*
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♪ Isaäc Bickërstaff ♫
United States
Greer
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Entropy Seminar:
badge
The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekund lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot.
Avatar
Reading these kinds of exchanges makes me feel the same way I do when I see people arguing in public. Some things just don't need to be shared.

Also, it's hard to tell who "brought the heat" first in this exchange, but it's clear that the customer asked for special treatment, which he received -- a refund in a form different from what was usual for the company. At that point, the misunderstanding broke out, but it's hard to tell who started it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sheridan Hortness
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Things like this are the reason that I don't mail order games. I like being able to walk into a store, pick the game off the shelf and go home with it that day. I end up paying more, but I also get the satisfaction of supporting the gaming hobby store in town because I like those guys and they do a lot to support the growth of the hobby.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Galen
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wow thats pretty bad, I had a similar experience with an ebay store. I had bought "A game of thrones" off a store on ebay. But after 2 weeks it ever came and I got no email. I emailed them and about a week later i got a response that the game was out of stick!

I was pissed. Why did they put an out of stock game on ebay? And why didnt they tell me when I paid for it. Well I was pissed! I sent them a rather rude email that WAS called for and they got offeneded and threatened to leave negative feedback.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Galen
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh I meant to add this. I cannot stress enough how awesome www.timewellspent.com is. Their shipping is usually about 4 days and theur prices are very good.


Timewellspent.com
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Frantz
United States
Wenatchee
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
hmmmm....
I agree it's very hard to tell what actually happened from the string of emails, and I'd be willing to wager that there is "fault" that lies with everyone. However, the tone of boulders replies should not be tolerated. While "the customer is always right" can be taken to extremes that an internet game company can not afford, you'd hope the principles of such would be prominent in their dealings. I have been floored by the overall wonderful treatment of all online game stores I have used (boulder is not one of them). I am grateful that we have such choices. I will use boulder very cautiously in the future.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Johnson
United States
Crystal Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I really hesitated to comment here because I doubt any good will come of it, but I really want to defend Jim and Boulder Games. I agree that the exchange is difficult to understand completely, but it appears to me that Ron was the first to become belligerent and unreasonable. Until Jim's final comment (which was, admittedly, a poor choice of words) it seemed to me he was legitimately trying to appease an irate customer. I've been ordering fairly frequently from Boulder for quite a few years, almost from the time they started business, and I have never had a single complaint. I think *I've* made mistakes in my order once or twice, and they corrected it and sent refunds without me even asking for it. I know the old adage says "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", but I've always found that behaving patiently and politely just makes everyone happier overall. There's another old adage that says "the customer is always right", but I actually don't believe that one either.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Peek
United States
Preston
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Most definitely sounds like a pissing contest, and I think the real loser of the contest is the poster. Boulder is not my online game company of choice, but they have a good reputation. They discount rather havily so there isn't a lot of profit margin for them compared to a bricks and mortar store. They have to make up for that by expediting orders quickly, and it sounds like they were doing just that. Changing orders and tracking them through a system can be quite costly to a small company. I think Boulder just did their job and got a hothead customer. My two cents, sorry!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Donnelly
Canada
Comox Valley
British Columbia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I'm not an executive in a Fortune 500 company, so maybe I'm not as discriminating, but I don't see anything here that would prevent me from dealing with Boulder.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Myers
United States
Madison
WI
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hmmm.
Jim sounds like he's used to getting his own way a lot. I mean, he is an Executive In A Fortune 500 Company and all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Kearns
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
Silence is golden.
badge
Your sea is so great and my boat is so small.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I read through the emails and it looked like Jim was meeting his demands. I don't completely understand what the problem was since it appears to have gotten ugly by the earliest post.

I am a long time customer of Bouldergames and they are my first choice for orders. Jim on several occassions has gone out of his way for me including replacing pieces missing from the games I ordered although that seems more the responsibility of the publisher.

I don't know what the reality of the fight is and I'm sorry the poster didn't get what he wanted but this whole thing is extremely different from any the experiences I've had with Bouldergames in my long history of dealing with them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Hetrick
United States
Jacksonville
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Your feedback
I appreciate the responses you all are giving. I would like to address them.

First, why post this? The people who guessed that editing occurred and some initial e-mails were left out were correct. After being continually lied to and told I was the problem, I started quoting their e-mails back to them to show them that they were not reading what they were sending.

In the initial e-mails, I asked for a phone number and a substitution which could have been resolved in 1 shot. Instead, they took it down a few levels and started attacking me for not obeying their system of doing business.

What I wanted people to see is there are legitimate businesses with phone numbers and courteous customer service that seek to fix problems. Then there are companies that seek to berate customers and go out of their way to not help them out. I can recommend many reputable stores that do the prior. It is the courtesy of people on this board to report those who are the latter.

What can you expect from Boulder if you have a problem? Insults. That is why it says Buyer Beware. If you like being insulted then by all means, buy away. If you get burned, you were warned.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Cote
United States
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Every time I go looking for new games Boulder never has the ones I want in stock. Also, they have a yucky web site. I'll stick with Funagain, Fair Play, and Game Surplus.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark McEvoy
Canada
Mountain
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Thanks to rude correspondence in public from Jim, I've had Boulder blacklisted for 5 years now.


When I asked Funagain and Boulder to quote a price for shipping of the same products, Funagain responded the same day with a quote that was less than half of what Boulder quoted when they responded to my email... six days later.


When I talked about this experience on Usenet (A fellow Canadian game importer was asking about which American stores provided the best service and pricing) I explained this - I used the phrase "Boulder's prices may look better, but Funagain matches
any better prices, and doesn't try to ream Canadians on shipping."


To which he responded, publicly on usenet,

"okay he's on to us. i'm coming clean on this and admitting that boulder
games, the u.s. postal service, and the canadian post office conspired to
"ream" mark.... in order to give back our ill gotten gains any one using
the phrase, "ream that mark guy" will get $2 off shipping."




Is this the usual way to deal with dissatisfied customers? Mock them in a public forum?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
United States
Vancouver
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Ami. Geek.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Even if the customer is the biggest jerk in the world, there is absolutely no excuse (especially via email) for saying things to them that are intentionally insulting or otherwise hateful. It doesn't matter who started it, good customer service requires the retailer to be the bigger man (so to speak) and return politeness for rudeness.

With that said, I don't think you should have to kiss their butt if they are being completely unreasonable. I just don't think insults and hateful speach is neccissary. Say something like "I'm sorry you feel that way. We've done X to rectify the situation and will not respond to further emails." instead.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Hetrick
United States
Jacksonville
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For the sake of those who want the history
Since everyone seems to think I took it to them from the get go, here are the first two e-mails. As you can see, everything was going along really great. if you think my response was rude then I'm struggling to see where the wording is:

>>>>

Jason -

If I'm understanding this correctly, you have already billed me but can give me a credit for shipping with this order instead of sending the refund check?

If so, and you are talking $23, please include Attika and we will call it even.

Let me know if I am misunderstanding you. Thanks.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: shipping [mailto:shipping@bouldergames.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 2:41 PM
To: Ron Hetrick
Subject: Re: question


Hello Ron,

I'm sorry to inform you that yes, this was the case with "The Ark of the covenant" It's not easy to change an order once its been made. however we can email you a 23 dollar Certificate, if you would like to order another game to be sent along with your current order. Please let me know if you would like to do this.

Thanks,
Jason
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Cote
United States
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sending a customer a coupon/certificate to make up for any form of overpayent is very bad form. If it happened to me I would contact my credit card company and tell them the charge was made for goods not shipped. This is illegal.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♪ Isaäc Bickërstaff ♫
United States
Greer
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Entropy Seminar:
badge
The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekund lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot.
Avatar
Ron, I hate to tell you this, but if those were the original two e-mails, and then you typed out the one in your original post, then you started it. The tone in that e-mail is a bit scathing and rude, and you make accusations without asking for clarification.

That being said, the customer service in this situation was not handled well, either. Name calling and insults do nothing to further an already shaky conversation.

My conclusion? Both parties were at fault. So I stand by my original comment -- this is dirty laundry, that does not need to be aired.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Hetrick
United States
Jacksonville
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
not exactly
To your question. No. There were 6 e-mails after this one above and the final exchange quoted at the beginning. it was after the e-mail I sent asking if I was understanding things that things took a sharp turn downward.

They claimed they never received the e-mail above until I sent it to them again. At that point Jim stepped in and said he was calling the whole exchange off which I agreed was fine. After waiting several more days and not getting the order, that is when the exchange at the top started to occur.

Listen people, I accept responsibility for dragging it out. What I can't understand is why people have such tolerance for poor customer service. I was frustrated. Instead of diffusing and trying to understand my frustration, Jim decided it would be better to attack me and blame me! Why? What purpose could that possibly serve?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♪ Isaäc Bickërstaff ♫
United States
Greer
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Entropy Seminar:
badge
The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekund lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot.
Avatar
Look, I think that customer service needs to be good, but I also work with the public. Having done so, it's been my experience that a lot of customers take the position of "The customer is always right" to the point where they get insulting, rude, personal, and all-out nasty. You know why? Because they feel protected and empowered by knowing that all they have to do is say "Let me speak to your manager" if you respond to their abuse. I've seen it happen, and it's happened to me a few times in my life. In those cases, I will physically walk away from the person to remove myself from the situation.

It's important to me that I know the whole story about a confrontation before I take sides. Bad customer service is bad customer service, no excuses, but I WON'T put up with someone getting abusive with me, regardless of how right they think they are.

I'll remove myself from this discussion. I don't know the story, and it's wrong for me to offer opinions without knowing all the facts.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♪ Isaäc Bickërstaff ♫
United States
Greer
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Entropy Seminar:
badge
The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekund lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot.
Avatar
Oh, and I'm not saying that I think you took the position I described above. I'm just explaining why I like to know as much information as possible before taking sides.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kane Klenko
United States
Ridgeway
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Unrelated
Unrelated:

Just to clarify Galen's post, the correct site is www.timewellspent.ORG not .com.

They're my first choice too. Fast and courteous customer service and great prices.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.