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Subject: The 88th Edition of Blott's TGIF Poll rss

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Ben Lott
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If you want updates on when new polls are posted, go to The TGIF Poll Subscription Thread.

Poll: The 88th TGIF Poll
How often do you look at other users' comments/reviews of your favorite game(s)?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Never
2.9% 9
Rarely
20.1% 63
Sometimes
46.0% 144
Frequently
24.6% 77
All the Time
6.4% 20
Voters 313
Do you get defensive when people insult games you like/love?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Absolutely! I get very defensive, and will argue with the offender.
0.3% 1
Yes. It bugs me, and I'll sometimes say something.
5.4% 17
Somewhat. I don't like it, but I'll rarely say anything about it.
18.5% 58
Not so much. Usually I figure they just have different game tastes and move on, unless they're really offensive or ill-informed.
52.4% 164
Not at all. That's their opinion, I have a different one, who cares.
23.3% 73
Voters 313
This poll is now closed.   313 answers
Poll created by Blott
Closes: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:00 am


#3. (I asked this in a GeekQuestion, but I'd like to see more answers) What are the biggest complaints that BGG users make about your favorite game?

Any discussion is encouraged.
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Dr. Urza, PhD of Dungeon Crawl
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The only thing that really bugs me WRT comments (not reviews usually) is when the complaint is clearly the result of being ill-informed about something -- typically the rules.
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Michael Edwards
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Generally, I don't mind a negative review - even of a game I love. Quite the opposite, I like seeing what doesn't click with others, and appreciate that they are willing to post such a review. This is especially true with very popular games, where they are likely to catch a lot of flack for it - that takes a little bit of intestinal fortitude. That goes more so for full on reviews, rather than just game comments.

Now, I'm also willing to offer my counter opinions, and corrections if they've gotten a rule wrong or something, but all in all, I think it's healthy!
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Ben Lott
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1 - It's pretty rare that I take the time to look at that stuff. If a review gets a lot of thumbs it might grab my attention, but otherwise it flies under my radar. As for comments, sometimes it's interesting to look through other people's opinions, but I don't do it very often.

2 - When I spot people trashing my favorite games (in particular Lord of the Rings) I will often jump in to defend them. I'm not sure why, because I've always believed that everyone has a right to their opinion, but it just gets me fired up. This reaction is ten times worse if they don't seem very well-informed and are making derogatory comments without full knowledge of the game.

3 - People complain that one person can take over and direct the group, so it becomes a glorified solo game. They complain that it is just a puzzle to be solved and not a real game. And some people complain that the mechanisms don't connect well with the theme.
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David C
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Blott wrote:

Any discussion is encouraged.


The "geekbuddy analysis" at this point is my go-to in picking a game.

a) I can find out if it's been played-out in our local games group.
b) I know who's game tastes are whose... (is that right?) and I can pretty accurately say, "oh, this guy likes AT, so this is a good one"
c) I like quick takes in if a game is good or not---along with looking for some key-words. "Good for non-gamers" is one that is always a +1 with me. I don't need a full review of the game anymore. I can read the back of the box if I want a rough idea of the components, usually.

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Blott wrote:
What are the biggest complaints that BGG users make about your favorite game?


"Too light"! I enjoy a brainburner as much as the next person, but there are times when I just want to play Pit, or Celebrities.

Runner-up: "This game requires the right crowd to be fun." I've definitely made this complaint myself (Tichu is horrible with certain people), but I've come to believe that this "flaw" is my own fault, not the games'.
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Adam Alleman
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#3

I really don't care what most people on BGG think about my favorite games. Not that I don't care what BGG users think, I use that information to figure out what games to add to the collection and possibly find a favorite. I am more concerned about what my game group thinks about my favorite games. They are the people who decide if I get to play them!
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d10-1 I rarely look for comments or reviews on my favourite games as I already have a well formed opinion of them. I tend to only look to this info on new titles that I know little about.

d10-2 Opinions are opinions - I don't have time to waste trying to convince someone otherwise. If something is factually incorrect I usually try to highlight the correct fact.

d10-3 Biggest Complaint About my Fav Games - That they are all luck and no skill or room for decision making. Memoir '44 would be the prime example - the game is really about hand management and planning for a sustaining attack on a key position (or defence as the case may be).

Kingsburg is another - higher dice rolls will not always win against a crafty player.
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John Bandettini
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It's the fact that people all like different things that makes life interesting. Obviously you need to have some likes in common with the people you game with or you could neve decide what to play.

I'm fine with people not liking a game I like, it is up to them. It is good if you can give a reason for not liking a game and not just say, 'it's rubbish'

My favourite game is Stone Age which is a game I have seen very few negative comments about, art worst most people seem to think it's OK. (I'll now get a dozen complaints about it in response to this of course )
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I usually ignore comments and reviews of games if I've already formed an opinion on them. Unless it's a video review. I watch just about any video review I come across.

I do read reviews and comments on games I'm considering. The worst thing I've heard about a game I really like is Scott Nicholson's hilarious review of Stonage (OnBoardGames Podcast) where he trashed the game.
I love the game and I love his review even though I disagree with it.
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sometimes it bugs me - but I do understand people have a right to their opinions.

My favorite game is Air Baron - the biggest complaint I hear from people is that they can't compete because they don't get money if their chits don't get pulled. I always tell them it's ok to take loans out and try to pick up extra hubs using fare wars. Now, if you roll lousy dice AND your chits don't get pulled ... yeah, it's an unforgiving game.
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What irritates me is when a reviewer has played the game .5 to 2 times and feels qualified to review the game. Now, if their tone is one of a light dusting or an initial impression, I'll give them a pass. But if they start making broad, sweeping statements and analytical ass-talk, it grinds my gears.
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The most common complaints about Go seem to be:

1. You have to study and work hard to play it. (Which isn't true. If you want to become a strong player, then indeed you need to study and work hard, but you can certainly play go and have fun as a casual or occasional player.)

2. Beginners are confused about when they should pass, and confused by the existence of different rules systems (Japanese, Chinese, AGA, etc). (This is easily solved by just playing with Chinese or AGA rules. The Japanese rules are indeed full of convoluted special cases and scoring subtleties.)

3. They don't like abstract/logical/combinatorial/etc games. (Oh well.)
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Mike Jones
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Totally random, no decisions.

So, what? That's the point. Sometimes you just need to lay back and relax. Every game doesn't NEED to be brain burning and there are times to have 'fun'.
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Eric Clason
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The most frequent complaint people make about my favorite game is that it's multiplayer solitary (you can guess what game it is ). This is an exaggeration, there is player interaction and it does effect the outcome of the game. That said, my favorite game is on the lesser side of the player interaction continuum. So saying it is multiplayer solitary is an acceptable caricature to alert gamers who crave interaction not to look here. However I prefer that it is made clear that there really is some interaction so that gamers who are looking for multiplayer solitary are duped in to buying it .
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Urza47 wrote:
The only thing that really bugs me WRT comments (not reviews usually) is when the complaint is clearly the result of being ill-informed about something -- typically the rules.


I'll second this comment. It annoys me when someone starts a rant about some rule they've gotten totally wrong. It sometimes gets compounded when it leads to complaints about non-existent play-balance issues that are due to a misunderstanding of the rules.

Most people post questions asking for a clarification of rules they don't understand or that they think seem odd but some people start out by assuming the fault is with the game.
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Michael Edwards
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joebelanger wrote:
What irritates me is when a reviewer has played the game .5 to 2 times and feels qualified to review the game. Now, if their tone is one of a light dusting or an initial impression, I'll give them a pass. But if they start making broad, sweeping statements and analytical ass-talk, it grinds my gears.


I understand and generally agree with what you are saying here. However, there certainly are games that will only get .5 to 2 plays out of me, ever. Normally this would be because they just don't grab my interest for whatever reason.

I feel fine giving a review (and reading others reviews) that state what they thought about a game like that. It is good to make it clear that it's only been a few plays, but unless I'm getting paid for a review, that's all some games are going to get. This is especially true for game comments.
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1) I only rarely look at the comments of a game I already own, but when researching a game that I'm thinking about getting, I'll usually read through most of the comments. The negative comments attached to low ratings are usually the most informative, because if there are any actual problems with the game they'll get mentioned numerous times. On the other hand, if the comments are mostly just whining about petty things or they indicate that the game simply doesn't match that particular person's gaming tastes, they can do more to indicate how good the game is than the gushing comments attached to high ratings.


2) For the most part I don't care, because everyone has different gaming tastes and not every game will work for everyone. Although, if someone's entire complaint or insult toward a game is based on incorrect information (like saying the game is "broken" because they completely misinterpreted an important rule or somehow missed it entirely) I'd be much more likely to say something.


3) The most common complaints about my favorite game, RoboRally, are that's it's too long, too random, too complicated, or there's too much luck. I can understand the length issue because if you use too many checkpoints the game can take a long time, but that's mostly a moot issue because it's really easy to shorten the course. As for the rest, yes there is some randomness and luck involved, but if you know what you're doing it's far less of a factor than it might appear at first. I suspect that the majority of those complaints are from players who struggle with the spacial reasoning aspect of the game, especially when dealing with the more complex boards. Obviously some people are better at thinking that way than others, so it's really not a flaw with the game or the players themselves - it's just a bad match.
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David C
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Blott wrote:

#3. (I asked this in a GeekQuestion, but I'd like to see more answers) What are the biggest complaints that BGG users make about your favorite game?


I don't know that I care about what people think about my games, but I know that my biggest discrepancy between what I think of a game and what other people think of a game are the cayluses (caylii?), the 4-hour epics... and a lot of Knizia's works I think are too luck-based to even bother trying to win at.

Not to say I wouldn't try a 4-hour epic or a caylus, but it seems like here if you have a 4 ton rulebook, and it takes forever, it's like boardgame geek crack with ZOMG! 10 10 10 10!!!11!!one!! ratings galore. Whereas I'm more likely to say, "it was good, but...umm... second coming of God it is not"
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#3 - Tannhäuser gets the complaint that there is no story in the story mode.

This is, to my mind, mostly a failing of not having a few of the sample scenarios included with the game.

There's plenty of story in there, but it helps to have an example to see how it's applied.
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Woelf wrote:
... so it's really not a flaw with the game or the players themselves - it's just a bad match.


I think this is a critically important statement.

It's also not the end of the world when this occurs.

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1 I frequently view my geekbuddies comments on lots of games, including my favorites. It's always interesting to see the range of reactions. I enjoy being surprised by the highs and lows.

2 Tricky to answer. I might be irritated if someone insults my favorite game, but not if they dislike it or critique it. And of course, the frustration behind negative reviews often leads reviewers to inadvertently sneer at the fans of the game. Not the end of the world.

3 People talk all kinds of trash about Twilight Struggle. A really bad hand loses you the game. "Red Scare" makes the early war too fragile. Coups are too 'swingy.' Realignments are useless. Skillful play requires insanely comprehensive knowledge of the deck. It's imbalanced toward the Soviets. I cannot abide these insults to Twilight Struggle's honor and shall retaliate with my keen wit. The haters are stupid-heads.
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I might jump in with a rules clarification, but really I do get it when someone doesn't like one of my favorite games. I personally loathe Agricola, but that's just me, obviously loads of people love it.

As far as comments about my favorite game, that's tougher I don't treally have just one. How about I just quote a couple good ones:

Chicago ExpressCrappy Winsome components couple with a crappy snoozefest of a game. A root canal is more appealing than playing another game of this.


Talisman (Revised 4th Edition)Its not broken, its just retarded.

Age of Scheme: Routes to Riches
Maybe the worst train game I'vn ever played (It's not a train game)
--
No words, i can't belive it ... awfull (Seems to have found some words anyway)
--
Just because (I think this is to explain the 2 rating)
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I only speak out when a reviewer is factually incorrect or misleading about a game, or they are being hypocritical.
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My favorite games and others complaints:

- fiddly (now I won't throwback to the chit-fests of the 70s necessarily, but that won't ever stop me)

- too heavy (I appreciate it, I suck at 'em myself, but that usually means replayability!)
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