Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
6 Posts

Gettysburg» Forums » Rules

Subject: Selecting Artillery Targets rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
James Sheahan
United Kingdom
Wokingham
Berks
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If there are two artillery pieces in one area and they are ordered to fire:

1. Can they be fired at separate tagret areas?
2. If firing at the same area, can they fired at different unit types, i.e. one at artillery in the taregt area and the other at the infantry/cavalry in the same target area?
3.If the two artillery can fire at two different areas and/or different unit types, do the targets need to be declared before any rolls are made, or can the player declare their first target, resolve it by rolling, and then select theur next target (which would be influenced by the result of their first roll).
4. If an attacking player uses a single order to order artillery fire from two areas, can the target areas (and/or target piece types) be different?

Thanks,

James.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Con
Ireland
Dublin
flag msg tools
badge
Penny of king Sigtrygg II Silkbeard of Dublin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My reading of the rules is that the two artillery pieces act independently of each other.

So, the answers to 3 of the questions are:
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
4. Yes.

On question 3, my uncertain reading of the rules is that you have to declare the type of target for each artillery piece being ordered before making any rolls.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Sheahan
United Kingdom
Wokingham
Berks
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi. Thanks for the reply.

My question 3 is more about do you have to declare your targets before rollong or can you allocate them one at a time. For example: I have two artillery and both will fire. Do I:

(a) Declare my target for the first artillery piece, roll it, then declare my target for the second artillery piece, and roll that, or

(b) Declare the targets for both artillery and roll them.

The difference is that in (a) I will select my second target based on the result of the first roll. If I am aiming at a damaged artillery piece and trying to destroy it, I would not fire my second shot into it if the first shot has already destroyed it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darrell Hanning
United States
Jacksonville
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
We will meet at the Hour of Scampering.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eisley wrote:
Hi. Thanks for the reply.

My question 3 is more about do you have to declare your targets before rollong or can you allocate them one at a time. For example: I have two artillery and both will fire. Do I:

(a) Declare my target for the first artillery piece, roll it, then declare my target for the second artillery piece, and roll that, or

(b) Declare the targets for both artillery and roll them.

The difference is that in (a) I will select my second target based on the result of the first roll. If I am aiming at a damaged artillery piece and trying to destroy it, I would not fire my second shot into it if the first shot has already destroyed it.


Okay, now I suspect you're trying to "game" the system. I've been reading all your questions in multiple threads, and taken individually they seem innocuous enough, but taken as a whole, it seems you're trying way too hard to find places in the rules where a player can wriggle away from the spirit of the system, simply for some brief advantage.

If you take the order action as an actual order occurring, then the two artillery batteries would not be able to sit there and take turns firing, asking each other how effective their fire was, what they hit, how much damage they inflicted, etc., before firing themselves. I just don't think that's fitting in with the spirit of the rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Sheahan
United Kingdom
Wokingham
Berks
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DarrellKH wrote:

Okay, now I suspect you're trying to "game" the system. I've been reading all your questions in multiple threads, and taken individually they seem innocuous enough, but taken as a whole, it seems you're trying way too hard to find places in the rules where a player can wriggle away from the spirit of the system, simply for some brief advantage.

If you take the order action as an actual order occurring, then the two artillery batteries would not be able to sit there and take turns firing, asking each other how effective their fire was, what they hit, how much damage they inflicted, etc., before firing themselves. I just don't think that's fitting in with the spirit of the rules.


Sorry, but that's a really unfair comment. I'm not trying to ‘game’ the system as you put it - far from it; however, I do expect finished games to have clear and precise rules so that I don't need to interpret rules that can make a big difference to the game. The balance between victory and defeat in Gettysburg is very sensitive so getting the rules decided on by the designer could affect the game massively and even break it. Sadly, the rules for Gettysburg are incredibly unclear in many areas so there are lots of areas I would like to clear up. They’re not the worst I’ve ever seen but, still, the Gettysburg rules are very, very bad. It seems fine on the surface, but the gaps come to light when playing. Many important details aren’t mentioned, some example diagrams don’t match the descriptions, and some sentences even sound like they contradict themselves within the same paragraph.

In any themed game, there are lots of elements that don’t reflect the reality of the situation being portrayed as all games are abstractions. So, I think it’s fair to ask questions that are not made clear in the rules, especially as there are always many ways the theme can be interpreted to fit most approaches. In this case, each order doesn’t necessarily cover the same precise moment and could cover a period of 20 minutes to an hour. We did in fact play the game by declaring targets ahead of any rolling and we’re fine making house rules to patch things, if necessary, but I actually want to know what the real rules are as intended by the designer.

I actually think Gettysburg has some good elements to it and will be a fun game to play once the rules are clear and I don’t have to guess the designer’s intent in so many places. I pre-ordered the game some time ago as I was excited about it and reading the rules beforehand substantiated that. When playing it though, there are lots of situations and details that aren’t explained well enough.

Please don’t try to demean me by saying I’m trying to play outside the ‘spirit of the system, simply for some brief advantage’. I’m a very amicable games player who purely asked the community for some clarity on a poorly written set of rules that both players were confused over. I don’t mind if you’re happy to interpret unclear situations your own way (and I want to hear people’s, or preferably the designer’s, thoughts). There’s no need to reply in such a condescending manner.

(And, I put my questions in separate threads because I’ve seen it happen too often that even two or three different questions in one thread tend to get jumbled and only one gets answered. Also, I only posted my main questions too - there were many other areas that were unclear too.)
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Sheahan
United Kingdom
Wokingham
Berks
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Phil,

Thanks for letting me know about the FAQ. I appreciate it and I’m looking forwards to it.

I couldn’t agree with you more too - Writing rules is a really skilled task. It’s a skill that’s usually only ever noticed when not done well and, sadly, well-written rules don't get the credit they’re due. So, I really appreciate the task of writing them and, whilst it's a shame the Gettysburg rules are a bit muddled, I don't have a problem with them as I’m happy to post questions to get the answers.

My complaint in my previous post was directed at the manner in which an answer was made, painting me as trying to use the rules to get out of situations when all I wanted was clarity.

Cheers,

James.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.