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Subject: Cattle a fan made card. rss

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Joseph Nall
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Been through the rigors of playtesting and back. The result a fun addition to dominion.
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Tim Baldwin
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So this card is in play until you have a turn where you don't trash a card?
 
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Roberta Yang
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So, you basically lose a Copper or Estate every turn and get a replacement card for your hand from your deck?

This doesn't seem at all interesting. You buy one of these at the start of the game, play it once, then just have it sit there for the next ten turns thinning your deck for free.
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Tim Baldwin
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salty53 wrote:
So, you basically lose a Copper or Estate every turn and get a replacement card for your hand from your deck?

This doesn't seem at all interesting. You buy one of these at the start of the game, play it once, then just have it sit there for the next ten turns thinning your deck for free.


I do like the theme of the card since cattle take all day to slowly eat (Estates), and then chew their cud (Estates and Copper) all day long. When they are done they have a little come back up (Copper). It does seem powerful, especially in Curse heavy games, but the OP said he's tested it, so I'm willing to give it a shot, though it does seem like a no brainer to buy it in almost any non Thief/Pirate Ship/Gardens set.
 
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Joseph Nall
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Right the card is in play till you don't want to trash any more at that point you gain a copper and trash cattle. sorta a punishment for the benefit of trashing for a bunch of turns.

When it was playtested the card was especially useful when a play bought a few of them and used them together.

so if you had 3 cattle you could trash 3 cards a turn (starting with the oldest cattle) then slowly get rid of one through different stages of the game.
 
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Roberta Yang
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Gaining 1 Copper is not a punishment in any sense of the word for losing 3 Estates and 7 Copper. It just reduces the reward to losing 3 Estates and 6 Copper.
 
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Joseph Nall
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salty53 wrote:
Gaining 1 Copper is not a punishment in any sense of the word for losing 3 Estates and 7 Copper. It just reduces the reward to losing 3 Estates and 6 Copper.


yea that's true. most the time when you play one cattle though you don't actually get to trash all of those cards, just a majority.
 
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Scott Heise
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What about adding a -VP penalty to the card?

You know, because of cow patties.
 
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Roberta Yang
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HomerJr wrote:
What about adding a -VP penalty to the card?

You know, because of cow patties.


A -VP penalty to a card that trashes itself? Really?
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Scott Heise
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salty53 wrote:
HomerJr wrote:
What about adding a -VP penalty to the card?

You know, because of cow patties.


A -VP penalty to a card that trashes itself? Really?


... and omit the auto-trash feature in favor of "setting aside" a la Island.
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Joseph Nall
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HomerJr wrote:
salty53 wrote:
HomerJr wrote:
What about adding a -VP penalty to the card?

You know, because of cow patties.


A -VP penalty to a card that trashes itself? Really?


... and omit the auto-trash feature in favor of "setting aside" a la Island.


salty is right the -vp penalty kills the card. at first conception the card was... "if not trash this card and gain a curse card." after play testing the gain a copper seemed to be a better alternative for a 4 cost card
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David Murray
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Azorius Senate
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interesting idea, of course you could have a hand were you don't want to trash anything... Might try it out.
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Jason Woolever
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This seems like a Lookout on steroids. You get to use this hypothetical super-Lookout every turn, rather than once per shuffle. You can choose from your whole hand, rather than three unseen cards. Upon its use, rather than discarding a card, you get draw a card. And once you've cleared out most of your deck, you can see whether trashing will be bad before you do it, rather than toss the dice. The only downside is getting a copper at the end (and costing four instead of three). It's hard to imagine not buying this at the first opportunity.
 
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Dave Goldthorpe
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It might give more interesting decisions if you had to trash a card every turn it was in play and then had to decide whether to trash the cattle before drawing a new hand.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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I guess I don't understand why you would make this an indefinite-duration card instead of just having it sit there through your next turn, like other Duration cards. I can see you might have to adjust the cost and reward structure a bit, but it would make much more sense to me if it said "Now and on your next turn, you may trash one card from your hand. If you do, then +1 card; if not, trash Cattle and gain 1 Copper."
 
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Drew Spencer
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Sounds cool to me. A trashing ability this slow can't be seriously said to be overpowered. I suppose it could be argued that it's not very interesting, since its use is fairly obvious, but I don't see that as much of a problem.
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Tim Baldwin
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Golux13 wrote:
I guess I don't understand why you would make this an indefinite-duration card instead of just having it sit there through your next turn, like other Duration cards. I can see you might have to adjust the cost and reward structure a bit, but it would make much more sense to me if it said "Now and on your next turn, you may trash one card from your hand. If you do, then +1 card; if not, trash Cattle and gain 1 Copper."


I like Dan's idea. At least this keeps the card in line with all other duration cards. On your second turn do you have to trash one of the initial 5 cards in your hand, or does it just have to be at some point during the turn? I'd assume the only time you'd have an option of when to discard would be if you had other duration cards that gave you addition cards like Wharf.
 
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Tim Baldwin
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qubits wrote:
This seems like a Lookout on steroids. You get to use this hypothetical super-Lookout every turn, rather than once per shuffle. You can choose from your whole hand, rather than three unseen cards. Upon its use, rather than discarding a card, you get draw a card. And once you've cleared out most of your deck, you can see whether trashing will be bad before you do it, rather than toss the dice. The only downside is getting a copper at the end (and costing four instead of three). It's hard to imagine not buying this at the first opportunity.


Apprentice
Action
5C
+1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. Plus 1 Card per Coin it costs. +2 Cards if it has a Potion in its cost.

After seeing this card, Cattle seems reasonable to me. It's funny that we can complain about how imbalanced a fan card may look, then see an official one the same day that one ups it. Yes, it's not a duration card, but this card keeps going strong late game. You could trash a Gold or an Adventurer and draw 6 more cards. If you have several +buy cards it may be worth while to trash a Province to draw 8 cards and buy 2 or 3 Provinces.
 
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Chris Hawks
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Is the Duration ability available for use at any time during the Action phase? Can it be utilized in the middle of resolving an Action card? Or, to put it another way: when exactly can this abillity be used?

To eliminate ambiguity, I'd favor something like this:

Quote:
+1 Card
Trash a card from your hand.

From now until the end of the game:
At the start of your turn, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +1 Card; otherwise, trash this card and gain a Copper.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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Again, I don't see the point in making this card have an indefinite duration. Why not "Now and at the beginning of your next turn, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +1 card; if you do not, trash this card and gain a Copper."
 
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Joseph Nall
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Golux13 wrote:
Again, I don't see the point in making this card have an indefinite duration. Why not "Now and at the beginning of your next turn, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +1 card; if you do not, trash this card and gain a Copper."


if the card had the effect you like, would you buy it for 4? I bet not. Would u buy it for 3? Probably but then it's a run of the mill trash/duration card, and one that's hardly worth 3 without a +1 action effect. if you ad that you are looking at a super lookout or a duration upgrade that would go for 5 or 6.
 
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Dave Goldthorpe
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I suspect the card is a touch strong. A cattle/silver start followed by some/any drawing action cards + money looks a little too good. Whilst I expect it is very weak against some action cards (militia) it is looks very strong against others (witch). It seems to have a similar profile to a chapel and I wouldn't want to say if it was overpowered compared to a chapel.

I suspect the +1 coin for trashing the cattle isn't needed.
 
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Roberta Yang
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twbumr wrote:
Apprentice
Action
5C
+1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. Plus 1 Card per Coin it costs. +2 Cards if it has a Potion in its cost.

After seeing this card, Cattle seems reasonable to me. It's funny that we can complain about how imbalanced a fan card may look, then see an official one the same day that one ups it. Yes, it's not a duration card, but this card keeps going strong late game. You could trash a Gold or an Adventurer and draw 6 more cards. If you have several +buy cards it may be worth while to trash a Province to draw 8 cards and buy 2 or 3 Provinces.


I don't think it's fair to say "Apprentice is Cattle except better so Cattle is fine". Obviously, Apprentice costs more. Apprentice is much slower at deckthinning; it trashes one card per cycle through the deck (or worse if it's in your hand or in play when you reshuffle), whereas Cattle trashes one card per turn. Apprentice uses up a slot in your hand each cycle through the deck; Cattle does not (until it turns into the last Copper). When Apprentice trashes Copper (a common occurrence if it is used for deckthinning), you draw nothing (and are left with a three-card hand); when Cattle trashes Copper, you draw a replacement card (and are left with a five-card hand).

Yes, Apprentice later turns stuff into +X Cards for the last Province or for a Y-Province turn, but Cattle is far stronger as a deckthinner.
 
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DaDane the Dane
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Undrdatree wrote:
Been through the rigors of playtesting and back. The result a fun addition to dominion.


I love this idea!
There will be games where this card is a must-buy, but that goes for other cards as well.

I would like to suggest a change though

How about "Now and every turn after this you must trash a card from your hand, the card you trash can be a duration card in use. If it's a duration card in use you don't get a buy this round. If it's not a duration card in use you'll get +1 card".

That makes it possible for you to sacrifice the card when your deck is sufficiently thin - or you have only cards to good to be thrown out.
 
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Joseph Nall
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DaveGold wrote:
I suspect the card is a touch strong. A cattle/silver start followed by some/any drawing action cards + money looks a little too good. Whilst I expect it is very weak against some action cards (militia) it is looks very strong against others (witch). It seems to have a similar profile to a chapel and I wouldn't want to say if it was overpowered compared to a chapel.

I suspect the +1 coin for trashing the cattle isn't needed.

The copper is a form of punishment. after all the deck thinning you have to throw a piece of trash into your deck and curses were to extreme, possibly skipping a buy phase would work but then it's questionable at the cost
 
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